Are Toxic Relationships Nothing More than Distractions? | Bre Wolta

Tiffany: Welcome to true crime connections. I am Tiffany, your host

>> Tiffanie: Hello, everybody, and welcome to true crime connections. I am Tiffanie, your host. If this is your first time, I want to welcome to our rewired and inspired community. And if you've been here before, then welcome back. We have Bre Wolte with us this week, and she is a relationship clarity coach. Thank you so much for joining me, Bree.

>> Bre Wolte: I'm so happy to be here. Thank you for accepting, my invitation.

>> Tiffanie: Oh, my God. How could I say no? I was like. It was so sweet.

>> Bre Wolte: Yeah. Like we were talking about before we started recording. Your podcast is so unique in that it spans so many different types of experiences. So, as I've been sort of dabbling through listening to your guests, I'm just like, oh, there's such a range of fascinating people on this podcast. So thank you for doing what you do.

>> Tiffanie: Absolutely. I love it. I love being able to talk to people from all over the world about different things because, I mean, it is. It's all connected. Bad relationships, crime, trauma. All connects.

>> Bre Wolte: All stems from the trauma. Let's be real.

>> Tiffanie: Exactly.


Today, we're going to talk about narcissists. There's a scale of toxic toxicity in relationships

Today, we're going to talk about narcissists.

>> Bre Wolte: Yeah. The experience with the narcissist.

>> Tiffanie: I think we've all been there.

>> Bre Wolte: Yeah. Yeah. On some degree. Right? Like, just like everything. there's a scale of toxic toxicity. Toxic people, however we want to phrase it, where there can be the full blown narcissist that's diagnosed with narcissistic personality disorder. Right. Clinically. And then there's people with narcissistic tendencies, and then there's people who are just unhealthy or incompatible to us in some way, which all of those types of people can cause dysfunction or toxic toxicity in our relationships. But on the other end of the scale, the narcissist or the narcissistic experience is a very, very unique one. Absolutely.

>> Tiffanie: It is. Just because to the level, they can tear you down. It is scary.

>> Bre Wolte: Yes. Yeah. And it's insidious. It happens slowly. Often it's the psychological and the emotional abuse that really chip away our sense of self, our sense of confidence. It really has a second guessing everything about our reality, about what's our fault and what we should be taking accountability for. Right. We like to slowly get spun into this narrative that it's all our fault, and we need to do more to stop making so many problems in the relationship. And we don't realize it's happening because it happens very slowly with somebody that we have created this loyal bond with so that all the justifications come in of, like, oh, well, he wouldn't lie to me about that, or I must have misremembered this thing, because why would he tell me that we talked about it if we didn't talk about it? You know, it's so. I call it a mind fuck. With, like, in all my marketing and with my clients, I'm like. Cause that's what it feels like. You're like, am I fucking crazy? Like, what is happening right now?

>> Tiffanie: Well, that's what they want you to think, is that you're crazy. I heard that so many times. You're crazy. You're crazy. I was right every damn time.

>> Bre Wolte: I know. God, hindsight is so beautiful with these types of relationships because you can look back and you can really confirm your intuition. Like, I knew it. I knew that that felt wrong, or I knew that he was lying, or I knew that he had, a woman on the side, or whatever it is that you knew. It's so validating on the back end. Getting there is a process, but it is validating if we can look in hindsight and confirm that for ourselves.

>> Tiffanie: Well, you got to get past the excuses. We allow a lot of excuses.

>> Bre Wolte: Yeah, yeah. And then we start making excuses. Yep. Which is all by design for how they. How they position us, how they manipulate us into. Again, like, putting all the blame on us is very convenient because they have to take. Then they have to take accountability for nothing if everything's our fault. Even. Even so far, is cheating. Right? It's like, well, why were you looking through my phone? Or why.

>> Tiffanie: Oh, my God. Yes.

>> Bre Wolte: It's like, no, the issue here is that you are actually cheating. Not that I was. I mean, I can take accountability for looking through a phone, of course, but. But that's not the big problem in the conversation.

>> Tiffanie: Well, yeah, I got told once, well, if you go look for something, you're gonna find it. What does that mean?

>> Bre Wolte: Oh, my God. Not with trustworthy people, you won't. With narcissistic people, most likely, yes.

>> Tiffanie: Do you see this a lot with your clients?

>> Bre Wolte: Yeah, I do. I do. And one of the pieces that I, ah, incorporated into how I hold space for women is a community aspect of. So there's a group of women that are connected, that are moving through the program together in slack. And so they can go there and they can talk about experiences, or they can say, you know, I'm having a really hard time, I'm missing him today, or I really want to text him, or he did text me, and he's telling me how much he loves me and how much things are going to change. And, hearing that from each other, it's like, oh, your ex said that too. It's like sometimes verbatim. And I'm like, do these guys have like, a rulebook that they follow? Did they go to narcissist school? Like, what? Where do they get these one liners that, it's pretty, it's predictable. It's textbook of how they try to hook you back in and all the empty promises that they'll promise. But we get so attached to wanting that, that reality, that hope, that future that we were promised that it's really enticing to believe them. And sometimes we have to go back several times before clicks to us at, okay, here we are again, and nothing changed the last six times. So what am I going to do now?

>> Tiffanie: Yeah, they say lucky number seven, that's where you're going. That's when usually we've had enough. And it's pretty sad. It's got to take us seven times to figure it out. But to be honest, that's probably about how many times I went back, to be fair.

>> Bre Wolte: So, yeah, yeah, it's not uncommon. It's not part of that. Getting out of that abuse cycle is so hard, and it's hard for women specifically to even name that it's abuse. If it wasn't physical abuse, they're like, well, if he hit me, then I would have left.


Women who are physically abused also have a hard time leaving abusive relationships

And I'm like, well, women who are physically abused also have a hard time leaving. So I don't want to justify that. That's the case. But with the psychological and the emotional, it's harder to pinpoint what's happening. So it's harder to be able to come to that conclusion of, like, this is an abusive relationship, I'm being mistreated and I'm not ever going back there. It's a, different, it takes us just a little bit longer to come back into the reality of things because we've spent so long. I call it potential land, where we're just, we're living in this place where all of our dreams about the relationship are going to come true. He's going to go to therapy, you're going to start communicating, you're going to get the house in the suburbs with the white picket fence, whatever it is that you want. We live in that place and we cling to it because to acknowledge our reality and how things are in the literal day to day, 99% of the time would be too hard for us to conceptualize because then we'd have to do something about it. It's like, oh, well, if I'm holding on to the 1% of time that things are good, but I'm living in 99% of bullshit and anxiety, and I stress and walking on eggshells. Like, it becomes very clear when you put it in those kind of terms of the type of relationship that you're in, for sure.

>> Tiffanie: And I think that's what is so important about getting groups of people together, because, I mean, women can be narcissists too, so men, they get to deal with us as well. But when you do get to hear it from other people, because sometimes it won't really click until you hear someone else complaining about it and you're like, oh, shit, mine does that, too. It's an eye opener.

>> Bre Wolte: Yeah. I have the experience with women all the time in our group sessions where one will be, talking about wanting to go back to give him the benefit of the doubt, right? Wanting to try one more time, and then another woman will be processing like, I just tried one more time, and this is what happened. And you can see, like, it's different when they hear it from the experience of someone who's in it right then than even me saying, how do you think this is going to go the next time? Based on the last six times? It's just a different way that you can see yourself and somebody else and have those dots connect a little bit faster than if you're in isolation. Because when we're in these relationships, we, get embarrassed. We feel shame. We don't want to talk to our friends and family about it. Maybe our friends and family don't want to hear any more about it because we've gone back so many times that they're like, fucking leave them or don't. Like, I can't take this anymore. So we just isolate, and we get farther and farther and farther into our own little shame spiral and our own. Our own little hole, and we're left with our own mind. And so to come out of that and be in connection is one of the vital parts of healing, because we need to be witnessed and we need to be fact checked. We need to be held accountable for where our brain will start to take us.

>> Tiffanie: Oh, God. You leave me alone with my brain. It could take you anywhere to be a very dangerous place.

>> Bre Wolte: Yeah. Yeah. It's so helpful to have somebody from the outside help you find clarity about what it is that you're thinking. Why you're thinking that some of the education around these types of relationships and then to be able to dive a little bit deeper into, like, well, what about your childhood is familiar here? What part are we replaying? Are we dating mom? Over and over? Are we dating dad? Over and over? You know? And it's like we can start to pick up patterns and then heal those pieces so that you don't perpetuate this. This wound for yourself and just keep reactivating the trauma, keep rewounding yourself with the new partner that you choose.

>> Tiffanie: Yeah, it's the same person 2.03.0. I mean, I caught myself doing that. I kept being drawn to the people who are all treating me the same way. I mean, whether it be friends or boyfriends. And I'm like, like, yo, this is not working. Something's gotta give.

>> Bre Wolte: Yeah, that's so common that, when we start to do the healing work on a very real level with ourselves, we see, like, the. Through lines in all parts of our life. Like, oh, I have a toxic boss. I have a toxic best friend. I'm with a narcissist. Like, shit. And it can be a really lonely time in our healing journey when we have to shed all of those things at one time or in close proximity to one another. So you get out of the romantic relationship, and then you don't have any friends to lean on because all your friends are exhibiting unhealthy behaviors. And so you have to start letting go of your friends too. And it's like, is there anybody left? So the limbo space can be a really tough time. Which is another reason I try to bring women together during this time, because it's like, at least you all are on the same page and have the same value of self growth, so they can relate and connect on that level while they're finding people in their hometowns or in their, you know, their sphere to create new friendships with.

>> Tiffanie: No, that's great because, I mean, yeah, you have to have to hear it from the horse's mouth, like they say when you can tell other people's comments and all that. Like, I think that's great.


How many people do you have in a certain setting? So I have a rotating enrollment

How many people do you have in a certain setting?

>> Bre Wolte: So I have a rotating or, enrolling enrollment. So at any given time, there could be anywhere from two to seven people run for four months in my program, and then they have options to add on additional programs after that or one on one sessions. So it's this really beautiful, like, coming in and going out of this container for women, whereas somebody new is coming in and they get to see somebody who's three months in, which also gives them a lot of hope of, like, okay, I can, I can get there too, right? I can, I can get through this. She looks a hell of a lot better than I do, like, emotionally. So I think, like, I'm going to hold on to that. And to see, some of that mentorship happen, even in the group, is really, really, really neat.

>> Tiffanie: It's got to be cool to watch. It's so from your perspective, like, the same person, guy, woman, whatever. Or do you only do women or do you do men as well?

>> Bre Wolte: So the groups are female only. I have worked with men individually, but just for the safety of that container with how, how sensitive women are to men coming out of experiences like that. I haven't, I haven't done a men's group. and might or might not, I haven't decided that. But definitely the bulk of people reaching out are women for sure.

>> Tiffanie: I get that, actually. That was smart. I didn't even think about that. That's probably the last thing you want to look at when you're telling your story.

>> Bre Wolte: I don't know. You could argue both ways that it would be healing to see a mandeh partake in a healing experience. Right. And hear them talk and process. So there could be some benefit there. But I don't know. To me, these women are just very sensitive in where they are. And so the more safety that I can create, that's my number one priority. I want them to feel like this is the space that they can come and say the thing that they aren't able to say to their family or their friends without getting that, like, cringe look or without being told that they're crazy or just get over him already. Like, it's, it's that place that they can come and be held without judgment.

>> Tiffanie: So important. Everybody needs that.

>> Bre Wolte: Yes.


When you were healing from your experience, how did you find healing

When you, I'm, curious, when you were healing from your experience, how did you find healing?

>> Tiffanie: Well, first it was alcohol.

>> Bre Wolte: Yeah. Yeah.

>> Tiffanie: And then, you know, I just started looking at myself differently. I actually had a different lens. And I was like, I'm not these things that you say. And then also making the connection between childhood and where I was, I think that was, like, a huge aha. Moment for me.

>> Bre Wolte: Yeah.

>> Tiffanie: And that's when I was like, shit, now I get what's going on here. And I was like, okay. So I had to make sure, first of all, I break the cycle.

>> Bre Wolte: Yes.

>> Tiffanie: So I wouldn't do this to my child.

>> Bre Wolte: Yep.

>> Tiffanie: And then it's time to repair me. So I just took some time. And you got to kind of like, learn to relive yourself because you, you know your worth, but you lose it in a sense. So, yeah, it's so important.

>> Bre Wolte: You just get, like, whittled. You get whittled down from, like, a full tree trunk to, like, this tiny little stick. When you come out of those relationships, you're like, who the fuck am I without this guy telling me who I am? And that can be a really disorienting place, especially if you don't have, and likely don't have the confidence at that moment to say, this is who I am, and to rebuild it. It can feel a little bit like you're like, at sort of ground or, ground zero or square one, trying to figure out, like, what do I even like to do if somebody's not telling me what I should like to do?

>> Tiffanie: Yes, he wasn't so bad on like that. No, that's a lie. Certain things I'm like, wait a minute, let me process. But just realizing that this picture that they paint for you, they paint it for a purpose, and that is to have control. What they do is they find out everything that you hate about yourself and then they're going to amplify that and they're going to use it against you. And so you already had these insecurities built in. They just amplified it. So now you got to do double duty to knock it back down.

>> Bre Wolte: It's so gross. I mean, it really. There's arguments whether they're conscious of it or not, or if it just comes from their survival, from their trauma. And it's like, whatever the case, it's such an excruciating experience to go through as the person receiving that. So I'm really sorry that you had to experience that or you did experience that.

>> Tiffanie: I'm just so thankful that I am where I am now because I could have gave him a million chances that man was never going to change. And that's something that I always try to tell people in my episodes is, do not think you are going to save this person. Unfortunately, they're not savable.

>> Bre Wolte: They need to want to save themselves. Which is the missing piece here.

>> Tiffanie: Yes, it is. But in your mind, it's not you who needs to fix it. Until you get to that point, you're like, I gotta save you.

>> Bre Wolte: Yeah.

>> Tiffanie: And.

>> Bre Wolte: Yeah. A lot of the women who find themselves in these relationships are very empathetic. They have huge hearts, right? Usually not a lot of boundaries, which is why we get taken advantage of so easily. But they want to give the benefit of the doubt over and over and over. And they want to help people get better. And, there's a fine line there between, like, letting all of your energy go towards trying to get somebody else to take care of themselves and not taking care of yourself anymore, it's like if we can redirect all that energy back into you rebuilding yourself and let them figure out their own shit, because they're an adult person and they can do that if they want to, right? They have access to all the same resources as you do. They can find a therapist, they can find a friend, they can talk to their family, whatever it is. But we, like, absorb that responsibility of, I must fix him or I must get him to see the light, or I must not give up on him, because then he'll have no one. He won't have a place to live, he won't have any money. Very often we're, like, getting taken advantage of in those ways too. So, there's a lot of hurdles that we have to jump over to be like, okay, you dug this hole yourself and I can't be down here with you anymore. So I have to take care of myself. I have to do this first self care act and get myself out of this experience.

>> Tiffanie: I love what you just said instead of worrying about fixing them. If, we took all that energy and just worked on ourselves, we would heal so much quicker.

>> Bre Wolte: Oh, my God. Our capacity is huge. If you think about when you're in those relationships, how much you're holding, you have stress about the relationship and how the next thing you're going to say is going to cause a conflict or what it's going to be like when you wake up tomorrow. You have stress about them not doing what they say they're going to do. And how do I bring it up again without causing a fight? How do I get them to go to therapy on their own accord and not look like the nagging mother, right? We're like, we're playing out 4000 scenarios all of the time. When you're not in that environment anymore, the amount of relief that you have, it's like all of these balls in the air just dropped and you all of a sudden have all this capacity to figure out your own shit, which in some ways we have been. When we're distracted with somebody else, we're using that as a distraction to not look at our own stuff. So that can be a little jarring when we're like, oh, God, I have all this time now to, like, journal and see a therapist, to do all the things. But we have immense capacity. We're just putting our energy in all of the wrong places when we're clinging to those types of relationships, for sure.

>> Tiffanie: You'Re wasting all your energy.

>> Bre Wolte: Yeah. Yeah.


So what is your advice? What do you tell your clients to do when they're stuck

>> Tiffanie: So what is your advice? What do you tell your clients to do when they're stuck in these situations?

>> Bre Wolte: Yeah, it's, first and foremost is to have compassion with yourself. And the way that I have organized my program is including some elements that I think are really missing. Normal types of talk therapy or normal types of healing experience. So, and I'll go through what those elements are. But having a structure to hold you in a time that feels really chaotic and out of control can do such wonders for your nervous system. So, the nervous system is such a big piece of what we have to heal when we come out of those relationships, because we're living on, like, level ten of hypervigilance and stress and, like, all of the hormones, all the cortisol. Like, we're just. We're amped up all the time because it's not safe. It's not a safe relationship. Physically, mentally, emotionally, spiritually, financially. Like, whatever unsafety you're feeling, if you're living with that person or you're just engaging with them most of your day, then most of your day, you feel unsafe. So we have to create spaces that, allow you to come and feel safe so that you can feel that safety in your body. But when women are trying to heal, a lot of times they get stuck in the analyzing part of it. Like, I really want to understand, a, if he's a narcissist, b, why he's doing what he's doing and how he could, how in the world could he act this way? Because I can't imagine ever treating another person this way. So we get stuck on needing these answers. And so the books and the podcasts and all of that intake of information is really necessary. It's a necessary part of our healing. But a lot of people get stuck in the intake. They think, if I just learn more about narcissism, then I don't actually have to feel the things that I went through, and I can just sort of, like, heal because I learned more about narcissism. So, the second part that we need to do is be able to actually integrate our experience, and that involves feeling the things that are the consequence of that experience. So, it's one thing for me to talk about how sad I am that this person cheated. It's another thing for me to feel how sad I am so we stay in the analytical, and I call it the analytical buoy, where we're just, like, we're in the middle of the ocean, like, these crazy waves that are happening, and we're just clinging to the analyzing of the thing. Like, if I can just understand it, then I can get out of this storm, when in reality, we need to let go and we need to go underneath, and we need to, like, be in the wave and feel it and move with it. But we're so terrified of our emotions that we just cling to the buoy. So we need a safe way to be able to feel that, to integrate that. And I use a tool called EFT tapping with my clients, which stands for emotional freedom techniques. And, like, above all, it's a nervous system regulation tool. So we tap, we, like, activate certain points on, acupressure points on our face and our torso while we're talking about something that's activating. And it allows us to be with it because we're regulating our system as we're going into that scary feeling. Otherwise, we're not going to go into that feeling. We are going to distract with ice cream and Netflix. We are going to fill our calendars. We're going to overwork, right? We're going to over exercise or under exercise whatever it is that we're doing to avoid the feeling. We're really, really, really good at avoiding feelings.

>> Tiffanie: Clean my house.

>> Bre Wolte: Yeah. Yeah. But we aren't taught. We aren't taught how to be with those feelings. That can be. Can feel scary, right? Because they can feel really big in our body. They can feel really overwhelming. We don't like to feel anxiety or sadness or grief or hopelessness or betrayal, right? We're like, I'd rather feel happy. Can't I just feel happy all the time? But that's not real. So we have to learn. We have to learn to be with it so that it can move. It can move, it can process. And that comes from having a practitioner that can guide you through learning that skill. And again, hold that safe space for you. So if you've not had a safe place to come to because your home has not been safe, your relationship hasn't been safe, you can't go to your friends and family in the same way anymore. It's so imperative to have somebody who's on your side no matter what. And sometimes we have to pay for those people, right? Sometimes we have to pay for the coach or the therapist. And that's, just a different dynamic than we can have with anybody else, because if they're a good coach or therapist, it's never about them. It's always just about you. And the space gets to be fully about your experience and helping you navigate that experience. So.

>> Tiffanie: Sounds great.

>> Bre Wolte: Yeah. Yeah. Thank you.


Community aspect is so important. We can't really do one piece without the others

And then the third part of that is the community piece. So being around other women that have done it, because we can convince ourselves that we're the only ones that have ever been through something like this, and it's all our fault, and we've ruined our life and our ex's life by leaving. You know, it's like, we can create such phenomenal stories around this stuff. So to be able to be with other women, to bring yourself down a little bit or up a little bit, whichever way you need to go, like, to help co regulate together, is really, really also. It's all important. It's all important. We can't really do one piece without the others and have the same type of outcome.

>> Tiffanie: Community aspect is so important. You do? Because, I mean, I've had so many guests on my show, and they're like, I thought I was the only one. And it's like, no, this is happening so often. It's. And. But that also brings us back to the mind fuck that you're talking about.

>> Bre Wolte: Yeah. I mean, it's sort of twofold, because we're being primed by that person who's gaslighting us or manipulating us to believe that everything is our fault. Like, literally telling us everything is our fault. And if you could just stop making problems, then we wouldn't have problems. Right? That was something that I heard all the time, like, oh, you're going to ruin another Saturday by having a feeling, you know, it's just. It became my own narrative because I heard it so much. So, of course, when we get out of that relationship, we're going to self blame the same way. And for a while, we gaslight ourself in the same way, because that's what we've been used to for however long we've been in that experience. So to have somebody be like, no, Bree, that isn't true. Like, that's not true. In a relationship. Both people need to take accountability. There's never one sided. It's never one sided, like fault to a t. So it's like a backboard where we can bounce our experience off of somebody who's outside of it, but who understands it and become more in touch with our reality.

>> Tiffanie: When I was going through this, there was no name of narcissist gaslighting. That was not a thing. So I think as all this started coming out, and actually, another thing is crime shows, like, that's why I started, I think, getting sucked in, because I started realizing shit. Like, I could identify with some of it. And that was a big aha, moment. And then all these. These words came out, and I was like, there's a name for it.

>> Bre Wolte: I still remember. I was on a plane to Mexico. I was, like, getting out for the weekend, because what happened after I left my ex was his narcissistic rage and abuse, like, amplified a thousand times. And I just couldn't. I couldn't take it anymore. So my friend was like, just come visit me. She lived in Mexico at the time. So I'm flying out there. I'm on the airplane, just listening to this podcast. I don't even know how I came across this podcast. It wasn't one that I listened to very often, and it was about the narcissistic abuse cycle. And I was literally jaw open, like, on the ground on this airplane, like, holy shit, this is what happened to me. This woman is talking about my story. These are the exact stages that we went through. And to have that sort of framework helped me put a name to something, which helped me untangle a bit of it all being my fault. I'm like, oh, so this is, like, a predictable thing that these types of people do, which was helpful on one hand. And then almost immediately that, like, shame rush came over me and was like, how did I let a narcissist sleep in my bed? Like, how was I with this person for four years? You know, it was just, like, been a lot of self blame about how I could have allowed that to happen, which took a while to work through. But, yeah, I agree. Like, having the terminology that it's so widely accessible now is a really beautiful tool for people to be able to connect their experience to something, like, more tangible.

>> Tiffanie: Well, yeah, because you've been told you're a liar and you're crazy for so long, you're like, no name for it right here.

>> Bre Wolte: Just gaslit. Yeah, we have to be careful not to. Not to misuse those terms because they get a little watered down when people are like, he's such a narcissist. And it's like, I was going to.

>> Tiffanie: Say that it is overused now.

>> Bre Wolte: Not.

>> Tiffanie: The whole world cannot be a narcissist.

>> Bre Wolte: Right?

>> Tiffanie: So, like, people just throw it out there like it's nothing. But, I mean, there are for sure a lot of them out there, but it's not everybody well, we went through.

>> Bre Wolte: This in, like, the early two thousands with the world. The word bipolar, right? Oh, you're so bipolar because you change your mind. It's like, no, bipolar is like a diagnosable illness, mental illness. That is a lot more. A lot deeper than just changing your mind all the time. And same thing with narcissism. Right. There's a lot of components to that that are way deeper than somebody who's just, on the surface, very self absorbed.

>> Tiffanie: Right. For sure, yeah. If they're doing the playbook, then, you know, because I swear it is. It is like, literally a playbook.

>> Bre Wolte: Yeah. It's part of the reason that I started my podcast was bring a lot of awareness to this, these types of experiences. So I also interview women who have been through it, who have survived it. And it's so incredible to me, the people that will write me or that will schedule a free session with me after they listen to an episode, like, whoa, I. Like, I heard my exact story. Like, I think I need help with this. you know, and it's just. It normalizes that you're not in it by yourself and that, you know, you see somebody, you see someone come to the other side of it, and you're like, oh, okay. So maybe it's possible. Even though right now I feel like I'm in the middle of a dark tunnel, and there's no light on either side. Like, what am I doing? There's rats crawling all over me and, like, bats flying at me. Like, I don't. I don't know what to do here, but to hear another person who's like, I was in that tunnel, and there is an end. There is a light at the other side.


There's so many nuances in these types of relationships and healing from them

Just keep walking. Just keep. Keep going. It's really powerful.

>> Tiffanie: One more day.

>> Bre Wolte: One more day. Sometimes moment at a time. Right? And it's same with addiction recovery. It's like one day at a time. And in that, it's so normalized to just take recovery slowly and to meet yourself where you are. And this type of recovery, I don't think is talked about yet in those normalized terms. It's like, well, I'm no longer in the relationship, so I shouldn't make M. I shouldn't be missing him. I'm, like, aware he abused me, so I definitely shouldn't be missing him. Right? It's. There's so many more nuances in these types of relationships and healing from them and rebuilding your strength and all the things that. The more that we can educate and bring awareness to how people have done it and that it's possible at the very minimum. it's like, then it's all worth it.

>> Tiffanie: Absolutely. Everybody deserves a second chance. Everybody. You deserve to be happy. Like, who doesn't want to be happy?

>> Bre Wolte: Yes. Yeah. Yeah. And part of the deeper work that I want to do with clients is helping them to untangle the root of it. You know, the. The childhood beliefs that we have adopted because of whatever circumstance we were in that leads us to then be in relationships where we are talked down to or that we don't believe that we deserve the same amount of love that we give other people. You know, we have to get to the root of that stuff, or we're never going to feel comfortable in a healthy relationship. We can say all day long that we want somebody who's not a psychopath or somebody who's just, like, healthy, normal. But if we try to receive that and all of our internal beliefs are like, you don't deserve love. You're not worthy. We're going to push that away real quick because it's too. It's too threatening on sometimes a subconscious level, which can be really frustrating when you're, like, starting to date again and you're like, I really want this, but why do I keep pulling away? Why do I keep running away from these guys? It's like we gotta. We gotta unpack the deeper part of what's. What's going on.

>> Tiffanie: Yes. Because that was me. You know, when you actually get somebody who gives you compliments and stuff, like, you're actually uncomfortable to receive them because you're like, well, this isn't what I've been told. And it just, like a, sense of unease. And that's pretty sad.

>> Bre Wolte: It is really sad. Yeah. We have to first believe that about ourself. It has to. It has to originate from our own self in order to expect it or be able to receive it from other people. And that's the hard work. It's easier to say, to blame it on. Like, I haven't found all the guys in Denver. I hear that all the time because I live in Colorado. All the guys in Denver, like, all of these Peter pans, nobody wants a relationship. And I'm like, that's not true. You are just attracting a different type of person right now because of something. And let's look at what that something is.

>> Tiffanie: Yes. First let yourself heal. Then try to find out what else is out there. But you have to heal yourself first.

>> Bre Wolte: Yeah, that's.


Mark says apps and social media can make dating way more fun

I mean, that's the foundation we have to build that relationship with ourself and build the strength there and the respect and the loyalty and the choosing of ourself before we look for it externally, before we go into dating with that real, like, need you to like me in order to validate that I'm worthy of being loved. Like, that's a very transactional experience to go into dating with. But if you go up to that or if you go into the date, like, this is who I am, this is what I bring to the table. What do you got? Let's see if we met. Let's see if we can, like, dine together and this be a cool experience. instead of, like, I need you to need me. I need you to think I'm cool. Or, you know, it's a different. It's a different energy, and it can make dating way more fun, to be honest, when it's not so, like, oh, my God, this is gonna be it. And then, oh, my God, he was not the one. Like, it's such a far drop. Instead of being like, I'm kind of. I'm cool. I'm cool. Being single and having someone else would be awesome, but I'm still cool right now. Like, I'm good at this moment. It's. It will. It will help your experience of dating.

>> Tiffanie: God, yes. I hear from my single friends, I'm like, oh, God, what's out there nowadays? I'm like, good lord.

>> Bre Wolte: Yeah, m. You know, the apps, I think, changed. There's some good things about the apps. The first being that we can sort of be very clear about the type of person we're looking for and filter out more quickly than having to go on dates with everyone before we figure out, like, our values don't align or whatever. But I do think it. It added a bit of, like, I don't know what the right word is, but disposability to people, where it's like, well, I can just swipe and see 300 people in an hour. Like, I don't really have to put a lot of effort into this person. So I do think that the psychology of what's happened in the last. I don't know, how long have apps been around? Ten years? 15, probably 15 ish. Yeah.

>> Tiffanie: Like, my ish.

>> Bre Wolte: Like, there's got to be something that's changed in our brains around just our attention span for, yes, people not have.

>> Tiffanie: An attention span anymore at all.

>> Bre Wolte: Yeah, yeah, yeah. It's, It's wild the way that we can be shaped by just the things that we've adopted as normal. The apps and social media and all the things.

>> Tiffanie: Yeah, social media is great for certain things, but it is your worst enemy for others. So you got to use it with caution and make sure you give yourself breaks because it could tear you down.

>> Bre Wolte: That was one of the main reasons that I wanted to start a podcast, to be. To be quite honest, was because I value quality time with people, and I love having conversations. I love going deep with people. And social media was so exhausting for me because it's like, nobody's there to go deep. Nobody's actually. I mean, maybe some people are reading the captions and, like, taking action from there, but I have seen such better connection with people through people reaching out and creating conversation from a podcast episode than I have from social media. So it's just. It's different the way that we consume it because it's longer form. So we're, like, expecting to go a little bit deeper and to have more of a connection in that type.

>> Tiffanie: Of.

>> Bre Wolte: That type of experience versus, like, doom scrolling through the reels on social media.

>> Tiffanie: For the most part. I think when somebody's hitting, like, play on your podcast, they're there for a reason. They want to hear what you have to say. The people who are just scrolling, they're just trying to kill ten minutes or. You know what I mean? So it's a whole different group of people. So I think that helps a lot.

>> Bre Wolte: Yeah. Yeah. It's way more fulfilling for m me as the person creating the content to. To have that connective experience with people. So it's. It's been really neat. I'm, almost. I think November will be my year mark for the podcast. And I'm like, how has it been a year already? This is wild.

>> Tiffanie: That's great, though. What is it called?

>> Bre Wolte: It's called heartbreak to wholeness. Untangling the mind fuck of narcissistic relationships.

>> Tiffanie: Love that name.

>> Bre Wolte: Yeah. Which is exactly what we're doing.

>> Tiffanie: Yes. No, I love having these conversations because, I mean, I can relate. I've been there. I've seen so much shit, it's ridiculous. So I get it. And it's just time that we have power behind us again. Like, literally, you give it up. And I'm so sorry to hear that you also ended up in one of these relationships.

>> Bre Wolte: Yeah.

>> Tiffanie: That's usually, I think, the driving force behind all this because we've been there.

>> Bre Wolte: Yeah.

>> Tiffanie: We don't want you to make the same mistake. Let's show you the red flags. Let's show you how to heal.

>> Bre Wolte: Yeah. Yeah. It's important.


It's such a fulfilling job to help people who have been where you've been

Yeah. If I can help women do it in a little bit more of an easeful way than how I sort of cherry picked things together and strong armed my way through some stuff. Like, it would have been a different experience had I had the tools that I have now that I've learned as a practitioner or just learned along the way. So, for me to give those back, it's, like, so fulfilling. It's such a fulfilling job to be able to help people who have been where you've been in a way that's like, I'm not better than you. I'm just, like, ten steps ahead. So I'm going to just show you how I got to this place. Like, walk with me. It can feel so much less intimidating than even a therapist who can't, because of their licensure, like, share their experience. That's one. I get referrals from therapists quite often because they're like, either I don't have the direct experience, or I don't feel comfortable sharing my direct experience with this person, and they're really stuck. And so they're like, well, Bree is very open about her story and what she's been through. So the client feels like it's more of a sidestep to come into my sphere than like, a, therapist. Was a therapist gonna think of me? You know, the therapist being the, like, better than type of energy? I'm like, no. I've been. I've thought every single thing that a client has ever said to me. I've done most of the things that my clients have done. Like, I haven't been surprised yet with something that a woman has told me.

>> Tiffanie: I can see that. I don't think I am anymore either, that people say on my podcast, I've heard all kinds of crazy stuff.

>> Bre Wolte: Yeah. Yeah. Friends will ask me, like, how do you. How do you listen to women's stories all day long? And, like, how do you. How do you coach them and not have it affect you? And I'm like, because I've already done it. I've already been there. This is just. This is just a reflection of a place in my life that I have been. Obviously, some of their traumas and things are hard to hear and are different, but the majority is, like, we've all been through shit. The shit just looks a little bit different. If you can have compassion for that, for people and help them. Help them move through it, that's the piece that feels really rewarding. It's like they're not just talking to me. And then they're staying stuck there. We're actually making progress. We're making movement.

>> Tiffanie: Absolutely. I actually just got my, certificate for coaching. I'm excited to start.

>> Bre Wolte: Cool.

>> Tiffanie: Yes. We need to make this world a better and uplifted place.


Not everybody chooses to do introspection work, because it's painful

>> Bre Wolte: What are you going to focus on? Do you have, like, a niche that you. You want to do?

>> Tiffanie: Yeah. It's going to be like, childhood trauma and, like, abusive relationships. Try to help people move past what they've dealt with and see a different side of them. Sometimes they don't even realize it's from your childhood. Like, people don't understand why they do the things they do. And it's like, well, you got to go back and you got to kind of face yourself.

>> Bre Wolte: Yeah.

>> Tiffanie: And try to see where it came from. It all comes from somewhere.

>> Bre Wolte: Yeah. And that takes so much courage. So much courage. Like, I want listeners to really think about that because not everybody chooses to do that, that introspection work, because it's painful. And, yes, there's a lot to be gained at the end of that or during that process. But if you don't have that intrinsic motivation to do something different, to heal, then you're not going to withstand a the process, because it's not flowers and unicorns and rainbows. There are moments of ahas and, like, holy shit. And, then, like, integration. That feels really good. But there's also a lot of moments of crying in your journal or crying in fetal position on your kitchen floor. There's a lot of it. So to do this type of work, to be willing to say how I've been living for 30, 40, 50 years old is not working, and I need to do something different and stay committed to that is so fucking admirable. Like, I am m honored to work with the clients that come to me because I'm just like, when you're ready, the teacher appears, right. And let me hold the space. But it takes you doing the work and you participating in group and you doing the homework, and you really like doing it and not just checking it off of your to do list in order for any sort of change to happen. So it's. Yeah, not everybody's choosing that path.

>> Tiffanie: I mean, contacting is the first step, so.

>> Bre Wolte: Yeah. Which is often. It takes a long time. It takes a long time. I'll have people say, like, I've been following you for a year. I've been listening to your podcast for three months. You know, it's like, whenever you're ready, you're ready. And even if you don't feel quite, like, quite ready. There's a part of you that is trusting of you taking that next step. There's a part of you that knows something, m. You got to learn something new in order to have something new. So it's. It's like dipping your toe in to that free session and then seeing how you feel with the person. And do you jive and do you feel safe? And if not, then you dip your tone with another person, and like that. That's admirable.

>> Tiffanie: It's got to be done. It's got to be done.

>> Bre Wolte: Yep. Yep. We're just walking around with all the trauma that's been neatly packed for us that's, driving our experience. So whether we're aware of it or not, it's affecting us. So, for me, liking to have control over things, I'm like, I'd rather know what I'm working with than be in the dark and just be blindsided by all of these triggers and behaviors without any idea of how to shift them.

>> Tiffanie: Oh, yeah. I mean, a part of you already knows. Knows the truth. It's just we try to suppress that part because we're like, I can't hear you. And she's like, I want change. And it's like, no, listen. Because if you let her take that first step, you are on a whole new path, girl.

>> Bre Wolte: Yeah. I just did a podcast episode about how to trust your. Like, how do I trust myself or my intuition again after these types of relationships? And I shared this story where I was in. When I was in the thick of it. Like, I knew. I knew on some level I needed to leave, right. But I was pulling a lot of oracle cards and tarot cards, and I was like, spirit, just guide me. Like, I need a sign of what I need, what I should do. But, what I was really saying was, show me the sign that says I should stay. Right. And so any of the reading, any of the cards that came out, I interpreted through the lens of, oh, this is saying that I just need to work harder. This is saying that I just need to, like, you know, hang in there with him a little bit longer. This is how relationships are supposed to be. Like, I swear to you, it could have been as clear as, like, cut toxicity out of your life, and I would have been like, oh, well, I just need to change some of my toxic patterns.

>> Tiffanie: Yes.

>> Bre Wolte: You have to be willing. You have to be willing to see, like, if you're asking for signs or asking for guidance from whoever your higher power is, you have to be willing to see the one that's going to put you on a different trajectory, and you'll know. You'll know which one feels right because it might feel complicated and scary, but you won't have panic around it in the same way that you do with the choice that you know is not aligned. Like, there's something in there. Like, that. Like, isn't. It isn't quite aligning with who you are, so you're just bumping up against it, and it's like, this real jarring energy versus, like, oh, this path is going to suck, and I don't know where I'm going to live. And my friends are all cutting me out of their life because they're done with me talking about this person. But, like, you always figure it out. You always figure out the path that is for your highest and best. I really believe that.

>> Tiffanie: Oh, me too. I mean, I remember towards the end of mine, every time I'd go back, I was miserable. Like, I knew I should not, but I wouldn't listen to it. I'm miserable, and I'm like, why do I do this? Like, I'm not happy. It's like, this is stupid. Finally, I was like, okay, you need to be done. Done. Like, stop.


When we look back, it's really important to look back with compassion and kindness around

>> Bre Wolte: Yeah, yeah, yeah. We have to get to that point with ourselves, though. Like, I can still remember a very vivid memory of, like, after we. We had separated for a little while, and then after we got back together, it was, like, supposed to be that real, like, euphoric, pink cloud kind of place, and I was, like, laying on his chest, and he just felt cold and, like, hard. And I was like, this doesn't feel comforting. So even in the moment that was supposed to be the, like, good moment. I was like, why does this feel better? You know? And that was a real eye opening moment for me. Like, well, probably because I don't like this person.

>> Tiffanie: Well, right, you're mad at yourself because you're back with him.

>> Bre Wolte: Yeah.

>> Tiffanie: This doesn't make any sense.

>> Bre Wolte: Yes. So much judgment that we have on ourselves of, I fell for it again. Or, you know, how did I not see the red flag after the first 300 of them or whatever? Yeah. When we look back, it's really important to look back with compassion and kindness around. We were making the choice that we could at that time, for whatever reason, whatever our capacity was, for some reason, we weren't ready to see the intuition yet. We weren't really ready to follow that path that, ah, opens when you're like, I don't think I should be here. Then we have to take a lot more steps. So sometimes we're just not there yet. We're not there until we're there. That's why I tell clients, like, uh-huh. It takes us all different lengths of time to come to that knowing. But once you hit it, like, that's the change maker right there. That's the moment to hold on to.

>> Tiffanie: Yeah. No turning back. Because when you're done, you are done. And I can't tell you how many times I'm done this time, but then in the back of your head, you're like, that last time, I was like, no, no, done. And it was a different done. It felt, authoritized, you know, so it was, it was calming to know, like, you no longer have the control.

>> Bre Wolte: Yeah. Yes. That was a big part of my healing where he had revealed some things on the back end that were really disturbing of ways. He was controlling me throughout the relationship. And so I dove headfirst into therapy and to brainspotting and trauma work because I was like, I'll be damned if he has any space in my brain anymore. Like, I was, it was, it was exactly what I needed to be able to shut that door, lock it, deadbolt it, put up the boards. Like, I just, there was no way I was ever going back into that situation. And it really escalated my ability to heal because I didn't have, I mean, I fought it for a long time before I actually left, but when I left for the last time, then it was like, okay, now we're, now all we're doing is moving forward and figuring out how to protect my little girl, my inner self, from being treated like that ever again. And I have a lot of gratitude now for how that all played out because, like, I don't know how long I would have stayed in that codependency and in that self blame and in that, just like, it's, just such a sad way to be in relationship when you're absorbing all the responsibility and all of the faults. I really needed that bitch slap to be like, we're done. We're done with all of these patterns. That was then. It was like a very, like, what is it before Christ and after Christ, like a very definitive moment in my history where I'm like, that's who I was before, and this is who I am now. And I wouldn't be able to hold space for women if I hadn't gone through that, like, in any capacity because I had no boundaries. So it taught me so much. And then revealed on the back end, like, these are, also the type of women that you should be working with because you've gone through the fire and you can. You can guide others to do the same.

>> Tiffanie: For sure. He actually told you what he was doing. Most of them will not even own up to it.

>> Bre Wolte: My. I don't have a clinical diagnosis. I don't know this for certain. But I believe him to be a malignant narcissist. So he gets off on causing pain, and so him expressing and exposing all of these things were very intentional ways that he was like, see what I've been doing this whole time? See how dumb you are? Right? It was like that level of sociopathness.

>> Tiffanie: I know exactly where you are. I got it.

>> Bre Wolte: Yep. Yeah. So not every narcissist does that, but I believe I got a real special style.

>> Tiffanie: Got a jam again.

>> Bre Wolte: But, you know, again, nothing. I believe nothing happens on accident. And I wouldn't be here right now if that shitstorm didn't happen. And by no means do I want that to sound like I want people to go through that level of trauma and abuse and all the things. But for me, I was able to gain a lot of, purpose of why that happened and which did help me heal even further from that experience. So, for those listening. Yeah, there's. The more that you can find meaning in experiences. Sometimes it takes a little while to find the meaning, but the more that you can find meaning, the easier it will be to accept that that was part of your history.

>> Tiffanie: I love that. If anyone wanted to get a hold of you, I'll put links in my show notes, but where would you like people to go?

>> Bre Wolte: Yeah, my website has a bunch of free stuff for people, so I have a guide to help you recognize if you're being love bombed, which is free. I also have a relationship reset guide, which is free, which helps you sort of take stock in the way that you're showing up in relationships or if you've just gotten out of one, what you need to focus on in order to start to enter into a new, healthy mindset. So I'd go to my website. It's brewalta.com, and you'll get some freebies there. The link to my podcast is there. And then I have a self guided course, which I give a discount code to for any podcast listener. And it's called find yourself again. And it's really good for, like, the moment just out of those types of relationships when you're like, I don't even know what I like to do for fun. I don't even know what I value. I don't know anything about myself. It helps to guide you to find those answers. So I can send you the link for that. But the code is podcast. Ten for, 10% off of that, and it's fully to do on your own. It's just recorded videos for you.

>> Tiffanie: That is great.


eft is a tool used to help women with various issues

No, very useful. Who doesn't like free shit? Make sure you go and check it out. And I'm going to go check it out.

>> Bre Wolte: Yeah, I do. Yeah. I also lead some tapping circles here and there using eft to help women with different pieces of things that they're working on, like self worth or confidence or boundaries. So, again, all those will be listed on the website for I don't know when this will be released, but all the future events will be there.

>> Tiffanie: Love it. Absolutely. So, yeah, make sure you check the bottom of the show notes.


Brianna says women should meet themselves with compassion when dealing with relationships

was there anything else you wanted to add, bri?

>> Bre Wolte: I don't think so. I mean, I'll say it until I'm blue in the face, but just for women listening who are either trying to leave and keep going back or have just left and can see how long they stayed in something crazy, like, please meet yourself with compassion. Because we can't judge ourselves into healing. There's no way that we will find healing if we're constantly criticizing and judging ourselves. So that the door, compassion is the door that we have that will allow us to move through, into the other side. So find somebody who can help you find compassion. Be it a friend, be it a coach, be it a therapist, whatever. Like, find the person that you feel safe with that can help you navigate this stuff and get you out of your own self blame, self defeating kind of mindset.

>> Tiffanie: Yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes. Well, thank you so much for being here. I really appreciate it.

>> Bre Wolte: Yes. This was such a joy. And thank you again for. For having the platform to. To be able to help women and men who are going through these types of really confusing relationships and need a little bit of. Little real talk.

>> Tiffanie: Yeah, that's what I provide. Nothing but some real shit. I used to say. This is the podcast where I talk to real people about real shit. I love it.

>> Bre Wolte: We need more of that. We need less edited, more vulnerability, more rawness. Yeah, absolutely.

>> Tiffanie: No, I agreed. All right, perfect.