The Harsh Reality of Staying in an Abusive Relationship - Fighting for Her Life and Children | LaShaundra Barnes

This is True Crime Connections advocacy podcast

>> Tiffanie: Hello, you guys, and welcome back. This is True Crime Connections advocacy podcast. I'm Tiffanie, your host. Want to welcome here. I want to welcome you here. If this is your first time, if you are coming back, welcome back to your rewired and inspired community. Before we do get into it, though, I do want to give a shout out to CF, 15403. I've been racking my brain trying to figure out who you are. I do not know, but I want to thank you so much for the very kind apple review that you left for the podcast. So I had to get that out of the way all ah, right.


Lashondra Barnes is a mother and a survivor of childhood abuse

So this week we are learning how to look at different perspectives and to get a better understanding. Dude, an abuse survivors lens. What is it really like to go through it, to come out better and stronger on the other side? Joining me m this week is lashondra Barnes. She's a mother, another podcast host and a survivor. So thank you so much for being here.

>> Lashondra Barnes: Yes, thank you so much for having me.

>> Tiffanie: Of course, I resonated with your story, for sure. So this happened when you were in high school? Oh, my gosh. So young.

>> Lashondra Barnes: It didn't. The abuse didn't happen. I met my abuser when I was in high school. Yeah, we met when we were kids. and then years, years later, we reconnected, had kids together. And then the abuse happened when we reconnected around the time like I was in college.

>> Tiffanie: Okay. One of the gradual ones.

>> Lashondra Barnes: Yeah. Yeah.

>> Tiffanie: So where did you want to begin with your story? I don't know if you wanted to, go back to childhood or if you. It's up to you. Put the ball in your court there.

>> Lashondra Barnes: Yeah, I can go back to childhood. So when I was a child, I was very reserved, kind of to myself. I remember my parents used to fight a lot, and they actually got divorced around, like, middle school for me, between 6th and 7th grade. And I just remember being so happy because, like, all the fighting stopped, and it was just a lot of traumatic things going on, and I just remember crying a lot. And when my dad left, like, all the fighting stopped and most kids would be devastated, but I was actually happy because there was finally peace, you know? And so I met my first boyfriend when I was a junior in high school, and he's the one that, years later, became, like I said, the father of all three of my kids. And then he's now my former abuser. So we met, were together briefly, and then he moved to another state, and we kind of, like, lost communication. And I never. I guess had closure from that. So all throughout the years after that, I was trying to, like, recreate what we had with other people, but it never seemed to work. And then we reconnected when I was in college and, we had our first son, he already had a child by someone else as well. And then in that relationship, it was, it was gradual, like you said, it didn't start out as physical at all. And so that's why I didn't think anything was wrong. It was majority, like, mental and emotional abuse. A lot of m manipulation, you know, control, kind of hovering. And so that's kind of how it started. And I would say, like, for 95% of the relationship, that's what it was. It didn't get physical until the very end. And throughout the entire relationship, I had experienced, I had experienced mental and emotional abuse, some financial abuse, verbal abuse. And then, like I said, at the very end, it became extremely toxic and deadly and it got physical. And that's right before I left.

>> Tiffanie: Good for you for finally leaving. When it got to that point, I think, God, do we not make so many excuses for these people? I mean, it's so many, it's. Maybe I shouldn't have said that, or I shouldn't have done that, or I was five minutes late. How dare I? But I was behind a bus, or, you know, it's just little things like that. But these are not things that we need to be sorry for.

>> Lashondra Barnes: Mm Yeah, yeah, it's true. And I ignored all the red flags being in that situation because I want it so badly for it to work. I didn't want to be like my parents. I didn't want to separate the family. My kids were like two, three, and four. Like, they were really young at the time. Just the idea of starting overdose with nothing, being a single mother overnight and having all these kids and then just healing from all that while they were healing because they experienced trauma and things like that, hard. And there were a lot of barriers for me that kept me in that situation. But yeah, I made those excuses. I ignored, like, wise counsel people that came to me and say, hey, this guy's not it. You know? And I just thought to myself, well, I'm not like you. I'm not going to be like you. It doesn't apply to me. I ignored that too. And just every red flag, even that inner feeling like something wasn't right. Like the whole time, I just ignored that, you know, until it got to the very last point where it's like, okay, I'm I have to either choose life or death. I have to choose for me, I'm a woman of God. I have to choose Jesus Christ, or I have to choose this man. And so I had to pick God at the end of the day because someone was going to die. In my opinion, that's how bad it got.

>> Tiffanie: Wow, that's a scary place to be, too, especially when you have children, because some of these abusers, they won't just stop with you, too. They'll move on to the children. So you really have to be careful.

>> Lashondra Barnes: Yeah, yeah. So that. That was a scary part as well, because I, almost lost the kids in the prop, and I didn't even know. But just going back, like, because DCFs got involved and stuff like that, of course. Then just going back, reading the paperwork, I'm like, wow, if I wouldn't have left him, they would have taken my kids. And I didn't even know, like, being in the midst of it, that that was what was about to happen.

>> Tiffanie: Wow. Were they gonna give him to him?

>> Lashondra Barnes: No, they were gonna take them. Take them into custody. Like, they were gonna take them because they. He couldn't have them because they knew he wasn't. He struggle, you know, a lot, with mental health and stuff like that. He wasn't in the best state. And then, plus with the abuse, they weren't gonna give it to him, give them to him. And then with me, it was like, okay, well, if you're putting them in a dangerous environment and you're not leaving that they can't be with you either. And, that's what I think a lot of people don't understand.


Putting your kids in abusive environments could put them in danger, author says

Like, if you're not making good decisions for your kids and you're putting them in danger, then you can get your kids taken away as well.

>> Tiffanie: That is an amazing point to make. Absolutely. Because in a way, you're neglecting their needs because you're dealing with the bullshit.

>> Lashondra Barnes: yeah. And they can't make the decision for themselves. So, you know, even though you're not the one doing the abuse, but putting them in that environment, you know, could still cause them to get taken away from you. Yeah. So that was really hard.

>> Tiffanie: Right. I think it's so easy to get caught up in this because, like, you said, you wanted this so bad. Like, in your eyes, this is probably, like, your second chance of love with this person. And you're like, nothing's gonna break us up this time. Nobody's moving. I got them back. We're gonna be happy, and then happily ever after. Doesn't always work, but we want to make that person the person we want them to be, and we can't make that for them. They have to want to be that person. And that's a hard pill to swallow.

>> Lashondra Barnes: Yeah, yeah. And that's, that's what I said. Like, I was holding on to that person over the years I met in high school, but I didn't realize he had went through so much stuff, so much trauma, so much abuse, neglect. I didn't even know when I met him, you know? But even after he left, he went through more, and I didn't know how that impacted him, you know, mentally, emotionally. And I was holding on to that person because he was so kind, he was such a gentleman. He, you know, he was so mature. I was like a year older than him. He was more mature than the guys in my grade. I'm like, oh. Like, I just held on to that person I knew from high school instead of accepting, like, who he was, showing me he was in, you know, that present time. And so, I think that's one of the barriers, in addition, that really kept me holding on, saying, no, this has to work. We used to write letters to each other and stuff, like had plans of getting married and all this stuff, like, it has to work. But it just got ridiculous to a point where I'm like, it's not even worth it anymore.

>> Tiffanie: Well, there is, there comes to be a point where you wake up one day and you're like, what in the actual hell am I doing? I've been there myself a few times and it's just like, no, we're not doing this anymore. Like, this isn't love. You have the love for that person. They claim they have the love for you, whether sometimes they do or don't. I always question that. I'm like, if you love somebody like that, how do you treat them like that? How do you knock them down constantly? How do you try to control somebody's whole life? If you love them, why wouldn't you let them be free?

>> Lashondra Barnes: Right? And a lot of times I think that they, they weren't properly loved and that that was possibly the motto of love that they had. And that's all that they know how to do. Because a lot of times people who are abused and neglected in their lives, you know, they become abusers too. And they think it's love because that's what their mom or dad or, excuse me, whoever was in their life did to them. But, you know, and they might even know that it's wrong, and it's not okay, but it's like, it's so ingrained in them. Like, it becomes a part of them, and they end up doing the same things.


Did you ever bring up, like, counseling or anything like that

>> Tiffanie: Did you ever bring up, like, counseling or anything like that?

>> Lashondra Barnes: Yeah. So after leaving. Well, I want to say after leaving, after, like, a physical altercation, I guess you would say, towards the end that we had a physical fight. actually, no, let me go back. There was a day that I had went to the grocery store with him, and it's the whole story, but he was running around the store with the kids this day, and, for some reason, I had, like, a lot of anxiety. I didn't feel like myself. I didn't want to be in the store. I just want to kind of get in and get out. But he was drawing, like, all this attention to us. Like, he was being obnoxious, running around with all three of the kids, screaming and yelling in a store. And I'm like, hey, can you, like, be quiet so we could just get our stuff and leave? And of course, he did what he wanted to do. I questioned him about it when we got home. he, mind you, when I was in the store, like, I had this thought I was looking at everyone, like, passing us by, right? And I felt like. I didn't say anything, but I felt like they were looking at me like I was crazy. And it's probably because, like, however I felt on the inside, you could see it on my face. I don't know how I was looking, but people were looking at me like, this is what I thought. Like, I was crazy. So we get home, and I questioned him about it, you know, why did you do that? I didn't feel well, you know, I didn't want people looking at us. I just want to, you know. You know how you get anxious and you don't want to be around people? That's how I felt. And so, he had said this. He said you were. He said that you were. I'm sorry. He said that me and the kids were in the store having fun. Everyone was looking at you like you were crazy, right? And that moment, I kind of, like, snapped. And I. I don't know. And I never told him anything about what I was thinking in store. But when he said that, I felt like maybe he was right, like I was crazy, you know, like something was wrong. And so in that situation, he had some, like, some pills, a bottle of pills I had threw him all over the kitchen. and I was about to commit suicide. And from that point, I didn't swallow anything or whatever the medics were called, but from that point, I went to the emergency room, and then they linked me up finally with services, and I went to, like, an intensive outpatient therapy group. It's like you go four days a week, you're there 4 hours a day, you even eat lunch there, and you just go to groups all day. And that's kind of like my first experience with therapy, which the incredible thing is, the whole time, like, I was in the therapy, I never once, like, mentioned what was going on at home or mentioned him or anything. I talked about everything else but him because, you know, he was still living with me, but I didn't mention it until the very end when the therapy was up. But, yeah, like, that was my first experience with therapy, and it was after, like, he made me feel so crazy, and, I was about to commit suicide. And so after that, leaving that situation, even with my kids leaving the relationship, over the years, we've been in and out of therapy and counseling, you know, that's been a part of our, like, healing journey. We all were healing at the same time. You know, they witnessed things and experienced things, and me as well. And we've been through stuff individually, but also together as a family. So we all were healing at one point.

>> Tiffanie: That's good. It's important you have to be able to talk about these things and just think Maybe how much more you could have grown if you would have told them what was going on. But I get that. I do. I do. Because you're like, that's my little dirty secret. I don't want out, but I need help, so I get it.

>> Lashondra Barnes: And the funny thing is, like, every day at group, they would say, like, these certain rules or whatever of group, and one of the things they would say is to be honest, like, with the group, and be honest with yourself. Like, basically, don't withhold things. And I'm like, yep, I'm being honest. Yeah, yeah. So that. That was a difficult experience. And I forgot to mention, like, when. When we got. When I got to the emergency room, he shows up, like, maybe hour later with the kids. And one of the things he told me was to not tell my family and not to tell anybody, like, about that situation. He wanted me to be quiet, and I didn't tell anyone. And honestly, I didn't say anything until, like, last year. This happened back in 2017 when I left him. I held onto that, and I didn't share that with anyone until last year in 2023. Yeah. And I don't know why. Like, he just would say things and convince me to, you know, not include people. And I think that's. That's, you know, a red flag. And another way for abusers, to maintain power, control. Because the less people that know what's going on, you know, the less people that you have in your ear, telling you things, offering you support, letting you know that, hey, you don't deserve that, that they're losing power and control over you. The more people you have, the more support you have, you know? So.

>> Tiffanie: 110%. Cause that's one of mine. You should always say, that's all you do. Chirp, chirp, chirp, chirp, chirp. And he's like, you tell people our problems, and that's why, this and that. And it's like, no, I need to know that I'm not crazy, because I, too, was always told that I was crazy. And guess what? I was right every damn time. So, no, I wasn't crazy. You do you have to tell somebody, because God forbid, if something would have happened, somebody needs to really know what's going on at home. Somebody, if you don't want to tell a person, write it in a journal, put it somewhere, so people will get an insight of what's really going on.

>> Lashondra Barnes: Yeah. Yeah. And that's what I used to do as well.


Journal a lot. It's very therapeutic. I do recommend to your audience, start journaling

Journal a lot. Journal, journal. I don't know where my old ones went, but I do have a few. And I would go back and read them and just look at everything that I was going through. I'm like, wow. Sometimes it's hard to. Hard to do that. But it's also a blessing, I feel like, because it just shows you how far you've come and, you know, just all the dark, crazy things you experienced. Like, I had two near death experiences in that relationship. Like, I felt like I was about to die, literally. I felt life was slipping away. But to still be here and to look back on that, you know, what God has brought me through, it's like, I'm just grateful to be here and that my kids are here with me, and I still, am in my right mind because I could have, you know, fell off the deep end, you know what I mean? But I'm thankful to God that he's allowing me to speak and share and everything, and I'm not severely mentally ill or hospitalized or anything. Like, he's kept me this whole time.

>> Tiffanie: Right. That's a. Like, I say that a lot also about, like, the journaling, because once you do get past that. And you. You do, like, you go back, number one, the reflection. Holy crap. You're like. Because you will forget some of this stuff because your body and your mind is trying to protect you. So you start reading it, and your jaw is on the floor. You're like, oh, my God. But it's also empowering to know you got past it.

>> Lashondra Barnes: Yeah. Yeah. Journaling has helped me a lot. I do recommend to your audience, like, start journaling because it's very therapeutic. And then not just to write, but revisit those old journals and just see how far, like, you've grown and matured and how far you've come. It's very therapeutic.

>> Tiffanie: Absolutely.


You have a podcast called her desired Haven podcast. Is it about survivors as well

So you have a podcast called her desired Haven podcast.

>> Lashondra Barnes: Yes. Yes, I do.

>> Tiffanie: What do you. Is it about survivors as well, or what do you talk about on there?

>> Lashondra Barnes: Yes. So, on my podcast, it's all things Jesus, family, life, and faith. It's like a christian podcast. And I do share a lot about my testimony, but I also bring on other people who want to share their stories as well and how, like, experts who offer, you know, education on their journeys as well. I enjoyed doing it. I would say that I really got serious about it this year, even though I started back in 2022. But, yeah, a journey. And it's been fun.

>> Tiffanie: No, it is. It's great. You get to meet amazing people. Like, I get to meet you. So you get to see people where they are now. You get to hear where m they've come from, because it's so important. You can watch tv, and you're like, this is a tv show. Like, this isn't real, but, like, these are real people's lives. This is what people really went through, and this is where they really are today. And that is so empowering, because people who feel stuck, like they can't leave or what's my life going to be like after. There is life after abuse people. There really is. And it's beautiful.

>> Lashondra Barnes: Yes. And that's what I kind of like to use the platform for as well. To not just educate people about, like, abuse, abuse and domestic violence, but different things, too, like, parenting. I have two children that are neurodiverse, meaning they learn and process and do things differently than the average child being single mother. Just, we dive in on different topics as well. But, yeah, I really enjoy it. It allows me to meet really interesting people as well, and then to share that there is life after abuse. Like, this is not. And I always say this, this is not the end of your story. Like, I'm surviving and thriving in life after abuse. After I left that situation, I went back to school, got my bachelor degree. I am an entrepreneur. I started my podcast. I am, serving my community, as a children's ministry teacher. And I'm also a commissioner on a board. So it's like, look at you. Yes. All the amazing things that God has done and that he's still going to do in the future. It's like, that's not the end of your story. It's a small chapter of a bigger book. Right? That's just one chapter, but there's so much more left.

>> Tiffanie: Absolutely.


The first time I witnessed my husband having a psychotic break was in college

If you could go back, what do you think would be like your defining moment, where you would have been like this, something's wrong. Like this. This is, this is weird. This is not it.

>> Lashondra Barnes: Mm I would say. I would say the first time that I witnessed him having like a psychotic break. I remember when I was in college, and we were in a long distance relationship at one point. So, I had went to go, I took a plane to go visit him, and he was having a psychotic break. And it wasn't like you would think it's violent or something like that. That's not what it was. He just couldn't eat, couldn't talk. He was pacing back and forth for hours. And, he just looked so weak. That's what it was. It wasn't violent or anything. And so it was weird, but you would think that would scare me away. And I'd be like. Because it was strange. Like, I never, like, he told me he struggled, but I never knew that it was like that. and you would think, okay, that's it. I'm done at this point. But something in me was like, you know what? I could really take care of him. Like, I want to be there for him. I'm going to take care of him. Stuff like that. Which is weird, but I would think in that moment I could have easily walked away. And the crazy thing is. This is the crazy thing, okay. The crazy thing is on the way. Like, I went through so much to get there, I kid you not. Like the, I think I took like a bus. The bus was like an hour late. And then I almost missed the plane. It was like so many things trying to stop me now that I look back, trying to stop me from getting there, and I still was like trying to. I have to get there, you know what I mean? And then I end up, you know, with my first son. So after that. Yes. Which he's a blessing.

>> Tiffanie: Well, yeah. I mean, you're happy for that, but the universe was like, don't you go there.

>> Lashondra Barnes: Exactly. Looking at. Looking back, I'm like, there was so much. I kid you not. The bus was like. And the crazy thing is I showed up, like, 2 hours early, earlier than when I was supposed to leave. Like, extra early. I was still late. It was like, there's so much if I was just paying attention and stop being, you know, just so focused on. Intent on getting there and slow down and be like, okay, there's a reason why this bus is this late, and I came super early. There's a reason why I'm about to miss this plane. There's a reason why all this stuff is happening, yet I'm still trying to get there. So I will say, start paying attention when things are not, you know, there's barriers. Sometimes there's barriers and it's, you know, blocking you from doing what you need to do, but sometimes there's barriers that. It's like trying to protect you. You know, it's me. For me, it's like God trying to protect me and get me to slow down and talk to him and see, okay, what's going on? Is this something I need to pay attention to? You know? So pay attention, because the signs are, they're always there, but we just are so laser focused on what we want to do.

>> Tiffanie: For sure. I mean, right now you're getting upset. You're like, I'm just trying to get to his house. Like, I don't understand what is going on, but when you look back at it, you're like, maybe that's what it was.

>> Lashondra Barnes: Yeah. Yeah.

>> Tiffanie: Do you guys ever get married or you just dated?

>> Lashondra Barnes: No. So we were in a relationship for five years. We were engaged for three. Never got married. No, we were supposed to. Never got married. And so. Which I'm glad we didn't, because, yeah, it was. That wouldn't have been good. But, yeah, we never got married. And the amazing thing is, like, we were supposed to go to the courthouse, and for some reason that the night before, he stayed up all night. Like, he. I don't think he went to sleep. I don't know what was going on with him. He just. Yeah, but he would not. The day we were supposed to go, like, get married, go to the courthouse, he wouldn't leave the house. Like, he wouldn't wake up. And so, once again, that was another, you know, thing standing in the way because I really genuinely believed that God did not want me to marry marry him, you know? And so I'm grateful that we didn't. For sure.

>> Tiffanie: It's a lot harder to walk away.

>> Lashondra Barnes: Yeah, exactly.

>> Tiffanie: Does he have contact with the children? Are you guys, like, acomable now, or is it still, like, you need to stay over there?


You've forgiven your ex-husband, but forgiveness is a slow process

>> Lashondra Barnes: Yeah. so I had got, like, a. Like, it's called an order of protection or, like, a restraining order. So right after we left, that was in place for, like, four years. So he hadn't communicated with us for four years. They just reconnected back in 2021 and kind of are, like, rebuilding that trust and that relationship again. For me, I'm grateful that I've reached a space of peace and forgiveness. I've forgiven him. Like, I don't have any negative emotions, feelings, any. Anything towards him. I'm so grateful for that because there were a lot of times where I would easily get triggered and stuff like that. That doesn't happen anymore. I've completely. I want people to understand that I've completely forgiven him, even though he's done some very bad things to me. And my kids witnessed him do bad things to me, but they still are also witnessing. Okay, even though they. That he's done that, I still see that mom forgave him, and she can talk to him, you know, because he's still the father of all of my kids. So we gotta, you know, still do what we need to do for our kids. We won't be together ever again, but we can be cordial. We can, you know, get along and be kind to one another and do what we need to do for our children. So he. He's in their life still long distance. He's not, you know, in the same state as us, but they still are able to talk to and, communicate with them, and. And I would say that their relationship has gotten much better.

>> Tiffanie: That's good. It's important. One of mine was also my child's father. So they have been trying to repair that for quite some time as well. It's a slow process, but forgiveness, it is so important, and it's really not even for that other person. It's for yourself. Because some people are like, I'm not forgiving him. He doesn't deserve it. It ain't about that person. It's about you. Do you want to live in that anger and in that dark place? Or do you just want to shine the light on what it was and walk out that door and just keep living your life? And earlier you said you were silly because you're like, I could take care of him. And, no, honey, we are all that way. We want to fix them. There is no fixing.

>> Lashondra Barnes: Yeah. And that's the thing, though. like, when I was in that situation, I remember my pastor's wife saying, that's not your job. She literally told that. Told me that. And I was just like, okay, you know? But it wasn't because he needed more help than I can give. Like, he needed, like, professional, like, just therapeutic. He needed way more help than I could give, and I didn't understand that, but I was literally, it became so overwhelming, so draining, you know, being in that situation. And even though I was with him, I still feel like a single, single parent because, like, I was doing everything.

>> Tiffanie: Been there.

>> Lashondra Barnes: Yep.

>> Tiffanie: You're like, if I'm gonna be alone, I'd rather be alone. Alone. Not with a body, but still alone.

>> Lashondra Barnes: Yeah. Yeah.

>> Tiffanie: Well, I'm so proud of where you have come. I think you are doing amazing things.

>> Lashondra Barnes: Thank you.

>> Tiffanie: Shining your light.


Is there anything else you want, like, the listeners to know? Yes. Another thing would be not ignore red flags in relationships

Is there anything else you want, like, the listeners to know?

>> Lashondra Barnes: Yes. So, if you could take away anything from my story, it would be that your life matters and that you should never be ashamed to tell your story. Another thing would be to not ignore the red flags in relationships, because abuse can come in so many different forms. For me, it was not physical. For a lot of people, it doesn't start off that way, but it ends that way. So definitely pay attention to those red flags. Another thing will be that sometimes therapy is necessary, and I think it's important for us to get that professional help that we need so that we can really, be able to survive and thrive in life after abuse. Because, like we said, this is not the end of your story. And there is life after abuse. The last thing would be that Jesus loves you and he sees you. He desires you. He doesn't desire you to be abused, to be harmed. And we just have to make a decision. Like I said, for me, it was life or death. It was God or this man. Because the man in marriage had become an idol in my life. I, had to surrender that. And God desires us to repent, to surrender so that nothing else comes before him. And we have to not just look to a man or a person or our job or ourselves as a source, but look to God as our source so that we won't be so bound to a person thinking that you need to be here, you need to stay there, in that you can't do anything without them or whatever the case may be. So that's. That's my advice for. For your listeners. And I pray that this is a blessing to someone and that you stay encouraged because there is hope.

>> Tiffanie: Absolutely. And I love what you said. Like, there is so much power in sharing your story.

>> Tiffanie: Not only are you helping other people realize what they are probably in the. Because we like to make them excuses. We like to wear our shades, so we're not seeing the truth, but it's there and it's not going to go away. No matter how many excuses you make, no matter how many pairs of glasses you want to put on. It is what it is. So, especially if somebody who's listening, if you know somebody who needs to hear this episode, share it with them. it's empowering. And people need to realize there's so much life on the other side. Like, get your life back. You deserve it. I don't care if you're a man, if you're a woman. Abuse is not okay, and you deserve better.

>> Lashondra Barnes: Agreed?

>> Tiffanie: Yes. So if people want to come and find you, what is the best way? Is your podcast on all platforms? Do you have a website?

>> Lashondra Barnes: Yes, I am on all platforms. The main platform right now I'm focused on is, YouTube. So if you just look up her desired haven, you can find me there and. Yeah, I think that's the main one. I do have a website. It's herdesiredhaven.com.

>> Tiffanie: Perfect.


If this resonates with you or somebody going through it, please share it

All right, well, then I'm going to thank you so much for being here. I'm going to thank everybody for listening again. If this resonates with you or you know, somebody who's going through it, please share it with them. Let's heal the world as much as we possibly can. All right. Thank you so much for being here. I really appreciate it.

>> Lashondra Barnes: Yes. thank you for giving me the space to be able to tell my story. I really appreciate it as well.

>> Tiffanie: So important. So important. My pleasure.