The Importance of Addressing the Underlying Causes of Addiction | Christopher Mack and Wanda Webster

This week we are diving into addiction and the lies that our brain tells

>> Tiffanie: Hello, everybody, and welcome to true crime connections. I am Tiffanie, your host. This week we are diving into addiction and the lies that our brain tells us, all the little rabbit holes that you can go down in when you're dealing with addiction or mental health issues. Today I am, joined with Christopher Mack and Wanda Webster. So I want to say thank you to both of you for being here.

>> Wanda Webster: Thank you.

>> Christopher Mack: Thank you for having us.

>> Tiffanie: Of course. First, I want to say, christopher, congratulations on your 21 years of sobriety. That is huge.

>> Christopher Mack: No, I got 24 years coming up. It'll be 24 in September. The 22nd, year 2000 is when, you know, I found some sanity.

>> Tiffanie: it's a good way to put it. dive into your story a little bit.

>> Christopher Mack: Yeah, sure. Maybe I should start at, ah, where the end was the beginning. I love it. And that was. I had been married twice. I was in my second marriage, and we both were active in substance, and it was crack cocaine. I was in Inglewood, and it was that late night call after 01:00 and I was going over to where Hollywood park racetrack used to be, over there off of myrtle. And it was off a prairie in near century in Englewood, and had got that last rock because I went out and went from Manchester all the way to century and prairie to get that last rock, and I got that last rock, and the police pulled up on me, and here I am, I'm standing there with this rock in my glove, and the police finds it. And now, I mean, I had already did two years for possession of a controlled substance. And so here it is. I said, well, they're going to give me five years. And I started calculating. I said, okay, because that would be an enhancement after being in prison for that same violation. And then all of a sudden, I'm standing there wanting to die, essentially, because I didn't want to go back to jail. I want to go back to prison to be locked up. And I said, oh, wow, I'm going to do five years of state penitentiary. How am I going to get out of this? And then all of a sudden, there's this calm and peaceful game over me. And it says, you won't see one day in the state penitentiary. Well, that's been 23. And some years ago that I heard that, September 22, I went to court and they said, you can go into a rehab. So I went into the arena, b and that's when I got into the twelve step program. I got a sponsor and I started doing the twelve step work, which means to read the book and go through it. And then at the fourth step, you start working with other people. And one of the things that.

>> Wanda Webster: Held.

>> Christopher Mack: Me captive was principles rather than personality. And I didn't realize how personality driven society we are, because it's all about the personality. All about the personality. And I have to check in with myself if my personalities, they say the ego has to be smashed. And so I said, principles before personality. And so today I even try to live principles before my personality.

>> Tiffanie: Very interesting. I've never heard it put that way, but it makes sense.

>> Christopher Mack: Well, it's my life. It might make sense, but I've been surviving pretty much with the promises that are, laid in the big book of alcohol is anonymous. You'll have a new freedom. You'll have a new happiness. And so I I don't think we know what freedom is. I don't think we know what choice is, because sometimes we are under the influence of so many different things, and those drive our lives. And so when you think about it, you say, oh, okay, what is addiction? And it doesn't have to be the substance. See, I used to always look at addiction as obsessive compulsive behavior disorder. And there you hit the mental health spectrum, but you also hit something, you know, trying to escape from whatever it is you're trying to escape from to wherever you're trying to go. And usually pleasure instead of happiness, because I don't think we really have the experience of happiness until we dive deep into getting rid of all of the corruption in ourselves.

>> Wanda Webster: So what that means is that people are attracted to things that give them an immediate pleasure and their thinking, oh, this is happiness. Whether it's drugs, food, gambling, you get an immediate relationship endorphin rush from that, and you're really trying to fill up a hole that's impossible to fill. And that's why it becomes even more and more and more seeking. Pleasure seeking can be very harmful.

>> Tiffanie: Oh, yeah, immediate gratification.

>> Wanda Webster: That's dangerous.

>> Tiffanie: It really is. It can be, yes.

>> Christopher Mack: But it's the cues our society gives us. You know, this is gonna make you something other than what you already are. So, yeah, immediate gratification. Oh, I got to have that. How many of us go on Amazon to get that brand new thing that, somebody else had? Oh, okay. You know, but we want this pleasure because that's that feeling, but it's short lived. It doesn't have any substance, and it doesn't have any staying power. And certainly it can be harmful because we can find ourselves, you know, always looking for that next thing, the worst thing in the beginning of recovery is the one word boredom on, board that immediately kicks you back into looking for that gratification.

>> Tiffanie: Oh, yeah. I mean, what was that one saying? Idle hands is the devil's work, is the devil's workshop?

>> Christopher Mack: Yes. It's way producing some destructive stuff, so. But I like the fact about the empty hole. But that hole is filled with a lot of dark memories from the past.


100% of addictions are based on trauma, author says

And so in our book, we say the question is the flashlight to the dark halls of our minds. And in those dark halls, we start taking cues about reality. But we're living in the past, or we're living from the past. We have things that are driving us that we have not even investigated. So we haven't did any introspection, we haven't done any reflection. We haven't really searched out. Why do I feel that way?

>> Wanda Webster: So my background as an, educational therapist is that I've created many social emotional programs for companies. Some of them were taught in like, seven different countries. So I understand how to teach children how to make better choices in life and to look at consequences and so forth. I went to some of his talks, you know, and the lady stood up and said, well, but why am I the way I am? And that intrigued me because I wanted to know that what causes addiction? And it was. It's kind of surprising that AA never addresses this, but I know the stories that I heard individuals stand up and just bare their souls were so traumatic. It was just unbelievable to me that people went through the things they did. So I started connecting those dots and saying, this has to be related to trauma. I'm not going to make the assumption or that it's. 100% of addictions are based on trauma. I don't know that. But I think a good part of them are most definitely because we're trying to soothe, we're trying to get pleasure, we're trying to, bury those feelings of, whatever, unworthiness, abuse.

>> Christopher Mack: Less than.

>> Wanda Webster: Yeah.

>> Christopher Mack: So it's not really having an opportunity to choose, you know, because our life is set in. Our life is set in the culture itself. Our life is set in the culture. So we do things according to what, you know, what's been dictated before us. Not even able to check and see. Is that good for me or is that not good for me? And so when we start, you know, I went down that road of addiction because of some of the depression that I always could not get out from under, and I couldn't get out from under. That because I always felt less than. I always felt that I needed something else. What else do I need? Oh, I got to have this. Oh, that makes me look cool. That makes me feel better. That and so you got all of these things that you are responding to and I'm, not responding to. I'm going to give you one better that you are reacting to. And so you're held hostage by hearts from the past.

>> Tiffanie: I feel like a lot of people, it's their escape because it's so much easier to put yourself in this catatonic state and not deal with what it is you're hiding from than to actually look at yourself in the mirror and be like, why am I the way that I am? A lot of people don't want to look at that.

>> Christopher Mack: That's, because when you have a road of condemnation, then it's hard because you find yourself being critical of yourself and then you find yourself not being, you know, as good as you thought you were. You know, you can't walk around thinking that you're a piece of doo doo. You know, I would say the other word, but you can't walk. But that's the way you feel. It's not what you think. It's the way you feel. Now, those feelings that come by because you don't want to examine that. And if you examine that, you'd have this condemnation. You'd say, oh, I'm not this, oh, I'm not that. And, then it would become an obsession and you wouldn't want to get out of bed.

>> Tiffanie: Right? Right. So do you sponsor other people now?

>> Christopher Mack: Yes, I do. Yes, I do. And at the same time, I'm working in one of the most oppressed places in the world, if not the country. I, work on skid row. So I have to deal with this every day. I have to deal. But one of the things the system has let's do harm reduction. Okay? The system comes up with all kind of cliches, but the cliches don't have substance. So if you say, well, what is harm reduction? And then somebody said, harm reduction is reducing the harm that the individual would cause themselves. So they say, let's give them clean needles, right? And part of the proponent says that's enabling. When you give somebody and say, oh, well, they're going to do it anyway. But I can understand the clean needles is to prevent HIV and the spread of HIV. That I got that. But when you say harm reduction and you don't reduce the substance that's causing the harm when you don't reduce it and you continue to support it, that's not really harm reduction. And in the harm reduction model, that's out. here, you can't talk about abstinence, because here's an example of harm reduction. The way I understood it, if I have ten balloons and I'm using ten balloons a week, why don't I cut it down to seven balloons, and then cut it down to five balloons, then cut down to three balloons, moving towards some gold. But now they just say, let's just give them the stuff and let them use it and stuff. But these people are still dying. If harm reduction was supposed to reduce something and it's supposed to reduce death, and then, you know, you give somebody, you narcan him one week, and then all of a sudden, next week, he dies. Overdose. Okay? Because harm reduction doesn't allow you to talk about abstinence. It doesn't allow you to talk about drugs, will kill you.

>> Tiffanie: Right? I actually took a Narcan, class last week and learned how to use it.

>> Christopher Mack: I've seen it used. You know, the funny thing about Narcan is sometimes it can piss somebody off. after you get through using it, after you get through squirting it, you get out. I was once at the refresh spot in Los Angeles, and guy was in the bathroom. He was od and pulled him out, pants down around his ankle and all that, and hit him with the Narcan. Boom. Once hitting twice, doing nothing, three times, four times, comes back fired. He gets up, he goes and looks in the mirror, fixes hair as if, God, you was just dead a minute ago.

>> Tiffanie: So that's crazy.

>> Christopher Mack: And then a week later.


Christopher says people avoid going into program because they relive past trauma

>> Wanda Webster: So I want to talk about why people. You're right, people avoid going in, because that's the whole crux of our program, is it's called the journey within the first book. And it's true because you're addressing and reliving those feelings and that pain, and people will avoid that. However, we've created a program in that it could even be a self study for people, is that. That's the path toward freedom. We say, you have to heal it, feel it to heal it. And so we take people through that process, because if you just tell your story over and over and over and over, you're re victimizing yourself every time you tell that story. And that's not the path you want to go down. Want to go down the path. The other choice, which is how you learn to feel it, process it differently, and heal the trauma but people, we are not learned. We don't teach people how to do this. We don't even teach children how to process emotions in a healthy way. That's why our program is important. I'm sure there are other people doing this as well. But we have a vision. We want to help as many people as we can to come out of that trauma so that they can live the best version of themselves.

>> Tiffanie: Yes. That's what we need. We need a healthier society. Cause, holy shit, we're hurting right now.

>> Wanda Webster: well, all of that gunk is being pulled up for us to see because it's always been there, but now we're seeing it. We're seeing so much corruption, and it's become overwhelming for people. I believe a lot of people are in PTSD and probably don't even know it. Yeah, it's a challenging time to live. It's much different than when we're older. We grew up in a much different time. Much different.

>> Christopher Mack: But it still had its propaganda.

>> Wanda Webster: Sure.

>> Christopher Mack: Remember, we live in a society where propaganda now becomes the. It's the real drug of choice propaganda, you know? And people, they go into different places with that. So.

>> Tiffanie: Very true.

>> Christopher Mack: So. But she's right. We. Let's get to the introspection and the reflections and being able to do it in a healthy manner without hurting oneself. You know, you have. Sometimes people don't want to do that because they relive those feelings. But there are also techniques out there to do those feelings in a safe environment. You know, when you. When you're with somebody else who can help you navigate through those feelings, because when you can navigate through those feelings, they become less and less torturous, tormenting. Because the past torment, if you don't have a healthy way of releasing those things, they can become that obsession. You know? And that's one part of addiction, is an obsession. You know, we usually have an obsession about something. And sometimes the hardest part of quitting is the fact that I don't think I'm going to make it. I don't think I can live abstinence. I don't think I can do this abstinence. And then fear sets in.

>> Wanda Webster: So, a funny part of creating this program with Christopher called the dynamics of recovery. And our first book is the journey within. I realized that I had an addiction I didn't know I had, really. So my addiction.

>> Tiffanie: What was your addiction?

>> Wanda Webster: My addiction was people pleasing. And that was an addiction. So it came about. But it came about because I was bullied a lot from my sister. And so I became this. I gotta. I gotta be the peacemaker. I gotta. I gotta plea. If I'm really good, then she's not gonna pick on me. This whole, which, hey, these coping mechanisms work when you're little. They didn't serve me anymore. I didn't realize that was an addiction until I started diving into the work of a. And really being honest with myself and coming to those terms, and anytime it's, you don't have a choice, and it becomes almost like a compulsive behavior. That's an addiction. Yeah. So kind of funny. Christopher loved it that I had an addiction too.

>> Tiffanie: That's funny.

>> Christopher Mack: Well, most. Most people think addiction is substance oriented. So, you know, you know a lot of things when. When you start to get rid of the compulsion or the, impulse, you start to have some freedom. Now, guess what appears choice. Choice is always more than one option. But if I have a habit that drives me, and I always like to use the cigarette as the habit, a person smoking cigarettes, five packs a day or three packs a day, he smokes a cigarette. After the meal, he smokes a cigarette with a cup of coffee, he smokes the cigarette. When he has an argument with his wife, he smokes the cigarette. So all of those things, people would say, those are triggers. No, that's the addiction. That's the addiction telling him, you don't have no choice. You got to go out here and smoke this cigarette. And until he becomes abstinent from the cigarettes, that he can start addressing those little annoyances that causes him to smoke the cigarette. And so he says, okay, just like eating a meal, I used to smoke a cigarette after the meal. I used to smoke a cigarette before the meal. I used to smoke a cigarette with a cup of coffee. I used to smoke a cigarette without a cup of coffee. But it wasn't until I had something to lose that I had to address that addiction. And it was called COPD. And so I got into a gene study, and it says, oh, wow.


You're disrupting neural pathways and creating new ones, right

And I realized I was losing oxygen. And that's one thing you don't want to be without breath. And so that became enough of a incentive or a motive to do something different. And then once I was abstinent from the cigarettes, I do healthier things. I make healthier choices just so I could breathe.

>> Tiffanie: Right. You put other things in place for those times. So it's like you're not still depriving yourself from anything. You're just making better choices, and,

>> Wanda Webster: You'Re disrupting that neural pathway and creating a new one. Get a cigarette. Get a cigarette. So you disrupt that neural pathway. We use a technique in our book called EFT, emotional Freedom Technique, which, again, works that way. It's tapping. People might know it as tapping. EMDR is another, where they use the irapid movement. Desensitization. Desensitization, I believe, desensitize, yes. So that, again, that's the scientific thesis behind that, is that you are tapping while you're thinking of the trauma, whatever it is, the addiction, and then you're replacing it with something else. So now you've had, you're creating new neural pathways which are healthier, and you're disrupting that old pathway. That thought always went on, that pathway, always went there, always went there. That memory, that memory. So you're disrupting it. And so the brain is an amazing organ.

>> Tiffanie: Yes, it is.

>> Wanda Webster: Yes.

>> Christopher Mack: And it's like those memories can control you in the present, but the absence of those memories give you freedom. So if you have a memory that's running your life today, that's from the past, you're behaving and you're reacting to that memory rather than living in that one moment. It actually, the memory sometimes rob you from being your authentic self. So you're actually reacting instead of responding. On page 27 in the big book of Alcoholics Anonymous, the guy says, he says, doctor, is there no help for me? And this was, this was alcoholic. Ah, number three. You know, that was Doctor Bob. And there was Bill. But there was a third member who had went to Switzerland, to talk to Carl Jung. And he said, you have the mind of a chronic alcoholic, which means you keep returning back to that condition that keeps you in this bondage. But he says, he says the ideas, the emotions and the attitude of the individual dominates. And when he has a spiritual experience, a new set comes in and begins to foster this relationship with the individual. And that's what the dynamics of recovery really is about. Being able to get inside and being able to not have those things dominate you anymore. Your ideas, though, your emotion, though. A lot of people, a lot of people, they don't realize that their attitude is keeping them from the freedom that they need in their life. I'm not gonna do that. I don't want to talk to that person. That, ah, is, my story. I'm sticking to it.

>> Wanda Webster: I know a couple of those.

>> Christopher Mack: Yeah, that's an attitude m fostered by his ideas and his emotion. And sometimes the emotion doesn't fit the fit, you know, doesn't fit the, doesn't, fit what's going on.

>> Tiffanie: Right. I love that you said, like addiction, it's not about the substance. There's nothing to do with the substance. It's so much deeper than that.

>> Christopher Mack: Yeah, exactly. Like he said. He said it's a coping mechanism for some of those things that we thought wronged us. And what are they? You know? one of the things that, like I said, principles before when I started, principles before personality. Sometimes my personality might want to go some other way. But is it honest? is it kind, is it willing? Is it open? You know, sometimes it's, you know, it's a closed situation. So I have to use principles, you know? And the first principle in alcoholics and others, we admit that we were alcoholics, and our, lives have become so there. The evidence is, the unmanage abilities, whatever it is, in life, if you find yourself unmanageable in your own life, you might have an addition right? Now.

>> Tiffanie: Have you guys tried those modalities yourself? Like Eft and Emdr?

>> Wanda Webster: All of them.

>> Tiffanie: Yeah.

>> Wanda Webster: That's why we can only put it in the book if we've done this work. We've done everything in that book ourselves. And again, my realizations came from even creating this program. And then we worked through it using all of these modalities, and they work, or I wouldn't have. I wouldn't.

>> Christopher Mack: No, she wouldn't. That's who she is. She's kind of like a curriculum creator, and she has to know what it is she's talking about.

>> Wanda Webster: Well, I can't believe in it if I haven't done it myself.

>> Christopher Mack: So we.


Emdr helped me let go of trauma caused by car accident

So here's my. My relationship with Emdr. She didn't put it in the book, but we. We were in Arizona visiting her. Visiting her sister. I was gonna be snarky, but we were visiting her sister and her sister. Something happened. But that day, we found ourselves in an accident. And so when my sister turned right.

>> Wanda Webster: In front of a car going 60 miles an hour, that hit the side of our car.

>> Christopher Mack: Yeah. we were t boned. I.

>> Wanda Webster: She didn't see him like this. other than that, she might have been trying to kill me. You know, the facts I have with that sister.

>> Christopher Mack: That'S true crime. She traced it back to the. She did the real investigation signs criminal. I used EMDR because when loud.

>> Wanda Webster: Noises came in us, we both were like, you know, we looked at each other, we said, oh, my gosh, we have PTSD. And so we went to a specialist in EMdR, which just helped release all of that. It was amazing. Amazing.

>> Christopher Mack: It took me all the way back to before my grandmother died and the significance she had in my life. She was that compress of soothing. And I was able to reach that point where I guess I let go of, the trauma that had occurred with the hit from the car. Because when I got back to my grandmother, it was. That was what she was. She was represented for me. She represented some soothing agent, you know, from all of the things that went on when I was coming up, I was the fourth out of twelve. So, you know, we had a whole lot of. But when I used to go.

>> Wanda Webster: A whole lot of different personalities in.

>> Christopher Mack: That family of yours. Yeah, a whole lot of different personalities. But when I would go over my grandmother's house, I would have this. This peace, this comfort, because I was working with her. She was blind, but I was the only one there. And I think that helped to calm me and soothe.

>> Wanda Webster: So the message we want to leave with people is, yes, it's a scary thought to relive some of those traumas. It's not as bad as you imagine because you will get immediate relief. And that's where the joy and the freedom comes when you go through it. And there's no other way to do it. There's no other way. So what's the alternative? To live in the pain that you have or the compartmentalization of denial? The, you know, it takes a toll on your body to live like that. So you do want to release this from your physical body, emotional body, but the freedom you get from it is so worth it. The little bit of pain that you're going to relive.

>> Tiffanie: I think it's a really good point. Like, people are so afraid to feel these emotions, they're afraid that it's going to hurt and all this. But you're already hurting.

>> Wanda Webster: Exactly. And they're just feelings. They're just feelings. Let's not make them bigger than they are. They're just feelings.

>> Christopher Mack: But it's a part. It's a part of our makeup that we really need. And when you misuse it and it's not the appropriate use of your feelings, you don't get a chance to have the joy, the enjoyment in life that there is. There is some joy there, you know?

>> Wanda Webster: But when your feelings are discombobulated and all the emotions are coagulated that you can't differentiate. There are guidance system in this world, in this life. We, we need to use those feelings and emotions for our, intuition to guide us in the right direction. And if it's all a mess and coagulated, and you don't even know how you're feeling in the moment, except maybe happy or sad. You can't use them. You can't utilize them to make witness the opportunity. You can't acknowledge it. You can't see it. Everything is distorted.


Isabelle: Without criticism, you know, is the most freeing idea

>> Christopher Mack: and it brings me to this. This idea that, you know, a lot of times people don't know what they want, but I guarantee you, people always know what they don't want. They always know what they want.

>> Wanda Webster: That's always a good starting place.

>> Christopher Mack: That's always a good starting place, you know, so. And then, too, you know, to examine something without. Without criticism, you know, is the most freeing idea. When you. You're not judging yourself for the things that's happened. That's it. There's one thing in the program of alcoholics and others. What part did I play in it? Sometimes you didn't play any part, in it as it happened. But going forward, you start playing a part of resentment and all kind of things that you really don't need because it doesn't serve you. And the evidence is that you don't have no peace. That's why you say, God, grant me to serenity to accept the things I cannot change, the courage to change the things that I can, and the wisdom to know the difference, because there is a difference, because there's things you will never change. And so why would you like for them to be that guest in your life that keeps ruining it or running it? And you can be free of it, whatever it is? I'm saying it because there's those little things that we have that runs our lives that we have no idea that are unnecessary.

>> Tiffanie: Absolutely. You said that perfectly. So true. I love what you guys are doing. I think this is great work, and there's a lot of people who can benefit, for sure.

>> Christopher Mack: You want to plug the, dynamics of recovery website?

>> Wanda Webster: Well, I think you'll probably post our website, dynamicsofrecovery.com. it has both of our books there. We even have oracle cards, which you could pull one a day and say, what do I need to work on this week or today that gives you guidance based upon the principles that we've put into the books. So everything is there. We've even got some YouTube videos if you want to get a deeper perspective of something that we're talking about.

>> Tiffanie: Absolutely. I'll, make sure I put the link in the show notes for anyone who's interested, because that's great.

>> Wanda Webster: Yeah. And right now, we're doing one on one counseling. We're going to Columbia at the end of August to work at a healthy. What do we call this? A retreat? Inner health retreat, and we'll do some workshops there. We hope to get back out there sometime soon and doing workshops for people. But right now, it's been one on one. Christopher and I have been working with people.

>> Tiffanie: It's very good. The more help we have, the better. We've really. We got to try to turn society around for the better, because it's so easy to stay down here. We need to rise our vibrations and be up here.

>> Wanda Webster: We want to get people in touch with their authentic self and to make them and to show them, help them realize how powerful they really are. They have much more power than they think they do. And that's what the second book is about. Isabel. Starry night. The search, the magical search for alchemy, is when you realize, I have the.

>> Christopher Mack: Power to change this, and there's a.

>> Wanda Webster: Transformation, a, situation. I have the power to change the energy in a room. It's simple little things you can do.

>> Tiffanie: Absolutely agree. I do my affirmations every morning, and then I do my gratitude at night. You just got to keep reminding yourself how great your life really is. Stop thinking about what you don't have and look at what you do have and be thankful for it.

>> Wanda Webster: Yes.

>> Christopher Mack: Yeah. That's, one of the things that we talk about is relationships. And in having that relationship, there are five c's that are always present in a healthy relationship. Now watch this. Healthy relationship. Commitment, communications, cooperation, consideration, compromise. Those are the five c's and the five c's. I'm committed to saying my affirmations in the morning, which makes me feel good, which I communicate to myself, this good feeling that I have. And it keeps me, a little bit more buoyant in society than all the people who are sinking and drowning. I consider myself, and then I'm able to make compromises as that's where it starts. And then those five c's you have with other people, but you start with yourself. Commitment, communications, cooperation, consideration, and compromise.

>> Tiffanie: Absolutely. Because nobody else can love you unless you love you. So you have to love yourself first, and you have to respect yourself first before you can give love to anybody else. Was there anything else that you guys wanted to add?

>> Wanda Webster: I think we're good.


For your coaching, do you guys do online or in person

>> Tiffanie: All right. For your coaching, do you guys do online? Is it in person?

>> Wanda Webster: Do you do both? Zoom, telephone in person?

>> Christopher Mack: Yes.

>> Tiffanie: Okay. Just, if anybody was interested, they know how you do it.

>> Wanda Webster: Yes. You know, energy is energy. You know, it's interesting. There's no time and space that separates us, really, when you find that connection with someone, and it can be dynamic, whether we're on the phone, whether we're on a Zoom call, it just works.

>> Christopher Mack: Yeah, I do, I do crystal work with crystals, and I, use dowsing as the medium, as the go between, because with the dowsing, I can work with energy. So there is, dowsing is called radiasthesia. So it is a science to it. So I've been doing that for over 20 years. And so we look at life through an, egoic system that says, this is the only life. Things are alive around us, but because they're not organic, like we are, we don't understand that plants are sentient beings. We don't understand that the water, it's living. Everything around us is this life. And so Nikola Tesla says, if you want to understand the universe, you got to think in terms of energy, frequencies and vibration. And we're just now getting into the. We're just not to the invisible part of ourselves.


Most people think that the opposite of death is life. But in the Hindu and the Buddhist

One of the things I, will ask, and I like this, because this is where I am right now. Most people think that the opposite of death is life. And I said, and I wonder, I said, the opposite of death is life. But in the Hindu and the Buddhist, they say we're on the will of karma, which is birth and death. So the opposite of death would be birth rather than life, and it takes place in life. So what the real idea is, what is life? Is this expansion of consciousness. Now, we're talking about something totally, entirely different, right?

>> Tiffanie: Talking about energy.

>> Christopher Mack: It can neither be destroyed nor created absolutely, very easily. So the pain is yours.

>> Tiffanie: Yeah. I mean, use your power for greatness, and you'd be amazed what you can accomplish.

>> Christopher Mack: That's right.

>> Wanda Webster: this is true.

>> Christopher Mack: And look for the evidence. You know what the evidence really is? Love, light, liberation, joy, and peace. When you find yourself in a state of happiness with nothing going on, you might be closer to that truth than you are so absolute, unchanging. That's what truth is. It's unchanged. And there is something about us that is unchanging and was never, never destroyed or, taken away. That authentic self remains the same. It doesn't change. And it is the part of us that is joyful and that is happy in the assignment, whatever that is.

>> Wanda Webster: Well, we just cover it up with layers and layers of gunk and, misbeliefs and whatever.

>> Christopher Mack: Propaganda.

>> Wanda Webster: Propaganda. So it's about taking off those layers so that your light can shine bright again.

>> Christopher Mack: And it's always there. It's just that, you know, are you willing to take the journey within to discover the dynamics of recovery, getting back that which was lost? It did not. It didn't go anywhere. It still did.

>> Tiffanie: Got to find it. Got to pull back.

>> Christopher Mack: The best you is always there. And, not only do you find it, but you start having a relationship with it. You start being in relationship with it. You start understanding. Hey, wait a minute. Why am I like this? I know what's happening. Oh, I didn't do this today. Maybe I needed my affirmation. So, yeah. Haven't you ever found that you were thinking slow, and then you realize, oh, God, I could have had a va. No. Realize that you didn't say that one thing. You said, kickstart your day, and then all of a sudden, in the middle of the day, just before you go into bed, you kick start your day.

>> Tiffanie: You got it. It's a routine. You can't mess up the routine.

>> Christopher Mack: Yeah, that's it. That's a healthy habit.

>> Tiffanie: Yes. My light will never be dim again, I'll tell you that.

>> Wanda Webster: Good for you.

>> Tiffanie: Yes.

>> Christopher Mack: Good.

>> Wanda Webster: Good for doing your podcast, and thank you for doing that and having us on. We really enjoyed it.

>> Tiffanie: Good. I enjoyed having you guys very much. So. So thank you so much for being here.

>> Wanda Webster: Thank you.

>> Christopher Mack: Thank you.