Healing Through Poetry

[00:00:00] In a world filled with different healing modalities, one of the easiest is poetry. Poetry therapy is the intentional use of the written and spoken word to facilitate healing, growth and transformation

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[00:00:28] Tiffanie: What if the chapters of your life could become someone else's survival guide? I'm Tiffanie Survivor Storyteller and the host of True Crime Connections, where we turn pain into power and stories into Sparks of Hope. Every week I sit down with someone who's lived through the unimaginable and found the strength to speak out.

[00:00:50] If you've ever questioned your worth, your reality, or your past, you are not alone, and today's guest proves it. What if poetry could save your life? Nadine Ellis survived childhood abuse, a failing marriage, and the chaos of raising three kids under the age of three then turned her pain into powerful words.

[00:01:16] Her book The Gray Between Is Raw, real and Healing, and today she's sharing the truth. Behind the poems that helped her survive. Nadine, thank you so much for being here and bless your heart. [00:01:30] Three kids under the age of three. Holy crap.

[00:01:33] Nadine Ellis: Thank you for having me, Tiffanie. I actually have four now. Sorry.

[00:01:37] Tiffanie: Oh,

[00:01:38] Nadine Ellis: No glutton for punishment. , I was blessed with the fourth one, , with the second marriage,

[00:01:44] Tiffanie: oh, okay.

[00:01:45] Nadine Ellis: , Life becomes good in the end. .

[00:01:47] Tiffanie: Yes. Once you can get out of toxicity, it's imagine like unimaginable what can come your way and people just don't understand that.

[00:01:57] Nadine Ellis: I think the thing is I hate to say it, but you almost have to go through crap in your life to actually be able to appreciate the good things that are there in front of you. And I think, , a lot of the time we miss that, you know, at a younger age we sort of just are too busy sort of trying to, to live and, and you don't really understand the good things that we are there sitting right in front of you. I think a little bit of plan is actually part of the journey and it's a good thing to have. Sounds a bit contradictory, but Yeah, I think it, we

[00:02:30] Tiffanie: No, that makes perfect sense.

[00:02:33] It, it makes you who you are. Yeah. It gives you the strength to be able to deal with whatever bullshit life throws at you.

[00:02:42] Nadine Ellis: So where would you like me to begin?

[00:02:44] My childhood was probably a little bit,, not the norm to most people. Both my parents basically escaped during the war , from Eastern Europe and, , made their way separately, obviously, to Australia.

[00:02:58] And I think,, their whole [00:03:00] trials and tribulations along that sort of journey for them basically landed them with post-traumatic stress. Without realizing what it was. And I think you really sort of yourself up, for a bad base if that's where your parents are coming from. And so , my brother and I, , were impacted by that at a very early age without even knowing what was going on. , It's not for one of repeating cycles, but that's basically your example that you, you are growing up to. Other things sort of impact.

[00:03:36] I myself, , am a very late diagnosed autistic, , person, and that also impacted not knowing my autism was there from the very start. And then also, , English was not my first language. And then late in my adulthood, I discovered I was very dyslexic as well. So it was like, what? So that, that's kinda like my starting ground. So mental health was always a bit of an issue underlying as well, especially from like , my father's side. And I think it, it just probably was , the setup just wasn't a, a nice solid one to start with. Then, just basically fast forwarding a bit, going to the first marriage and I thought was a different sort of, , person, not like repeating like, you know, how that they say [00:04:30] psychologically, basically marrying one of your parents. I didn't think that was the case, but it was a bit different and without really wanting to go into it too much. My first husband , he ended up being a, a bipolar alcoholic. , And I don't really wanna go too much into that 'cause the kids, I don't, you know, for respect for the children, I don't, always wanted to sort of delve into that.

[00:04:54] For poetry writing was kind of like my myself, you know? It was where I could process what was going on in my head this idea from a very early age. As a child, I would often write things 'cause I found it really hard to articulate and verbalize what was going on in my head. So for me, , processing what was happening around me. , And enabling me to get my feelings out. 'cause I was a very feeling person, but , wasn't able to demonstrate that because of the autism. And I think it basically kept me sane and then later, , through adolescence and, when I was a kid. , All of that sort of stuff. think. Being able to write all of that out helped me in a way to , like I said, process.

[00:05:40] It kept me sane, but also made me understand that a lot of the things that were happening to me weren't my fault that I shouldn't carry that sort of shame or , that, , anger inside of me 'cause of the way that I was being treated by other people or mistreated by other people. Then I just [00:06:00] really got, kind of good at it a bit and managed to actually, , send these poems out, started getting published.

[00:06:06] This was back in the nineties, and it turned itself around in a way that I, I could utilize all , the bad things that were happening or had happened to me. It was just a beautiful source of material that I could draw on , and help process I think for me, the hardest part was just trying to fit in into the world around me, I always felt out of place. I didn't fit in. All I wanted to do was have friends and I just couldn't make friends. I couldn't talk to people. And it, it was like my little world, , me in a piece of paper where I could sort of communicate and share things.

[00:06:45] And yeah, it was kind of, it's a bit weird when I sort of explain it, but yeah.

[00:06:52] Tiffanie: No, I totally get it. So when I was in fourth grade, I was actually diagnosed with dyslexia. So I I understand that struggle. Oh yes. Gee, your B'S are D's and like, it's just, it's a mess.

[00:07:10] Nadine Ellis: writing, reading the same line over and over and over, and it's, I've read this line already. So

[00:07:16] Tiffanie: Yeah. No, I, I totally get it. Yeah. And when I was young, I also, like, I would write like short stories, poems, like all kinds of stuff in my room so I can completely [00:07:30] see where like you found this healing at. Because , that, that was your escape. . Everything that was going on in your brain, that was your hope.

[00:07:39] That was everything.

[00:07:40] Nadine Ellis: Yeah..

[00:07:41] Yeah. Nicely articulated. Thank you. It's tough and I think the important thing that, , like with me with the writing, , it's always been for myself, but. Once I was able to share myself with other people, it kind of helped me sort of understand that , it wasn't just me, that all this stuff was happening to that, just about everybody has something that impacts upon them, and it was a way to let other people know that they weren't alone in the world.

[00:08:13] , That there are other people experiencing these things. There is light at the end at, of the tunnel, so to speak. , And while it's okay to feel sad or, , feel the pain in the moment, you don't always have to keep that with you. You can, , work through it. it doesn't have to be writing or writing poetry or writing stories. You can find something that you can get joy out of and sort of zone in. And some people it might just be pottering out in the garden and planting flowers or vegetables or sitting and reading a book.

[00:08:46] But it's this ability sit quietly in yourself and think what's going on and some process and be mindful of the situation, but find , some joy in doing something and. other people that might be their way of [00:09:00] processing what's going on in their head and working out, were they fitting to life? So not everyone has to write. That's what I'm saying. But for me, being able to write the poetry was what helped me.

[00:09:13] Tiffanie: I hear a lot of that actually, like a lot of my guests, just like you also wrote,, your book, the Gray Between, I'm sure that was very therapeutic. I,

[00:09:23] Nadine Ellis: Yeah, it was.

[00:09:24] Tiffanie: a lot of my guests say not only do you kind of get triggered, but you also work through it and it's just, it's an inspiring process.

[00:09:32] Nadine Ellis: , Absolutely. Like for me, the book basically, . a documentation of the past sort of 20 or 30 odd years from, , young experiences, teenage experiences being bullied at school, , family dynamics. the first, , marriage breakdown and there's bits of my new husband in there and, , my children motherhood.

[00:09:53] . The whole thing, but it is very cathartic, that process of actually being able to get all that time out and onto the paper. , And having mentioned all that, am I all right to read it upon for you? Yeah.

[00:10:07] Tiffanie: course. Mm-hmm.

[00:10:10] Nadine Ellis: I'll just get to the page. one's about internal conflict.

[00:10:13] So this is called Child of the Inner War. Internal conflict is what she knows, like the veteran. We chases silence, but each night swims and colors of eternal death located by white sheets [00:10:30] that roll him back to youth. But she was born into the year of nightmares, and now each month leads the crimson of those dreams. And like the honor wall, Christ poppie, tears that sweep along. The names that rise above the dead raise. Print that brow bullets into bones salt will not hide the alone smell or unwashed flesh. Ric Hassen soaks this canvas, but her war is with herself, and these names are men. She will never know. They're the color of dark chocolate given over years ago by women that suffered the birth tables bitter suite. She sits like a wrinkled Buddha by the gravity of air, and for a few seconds each day her conscience the razor blade prison of her skin.

[00:11:28] Tiffanie: Wow, that's deep. I hope you didn't write that as a child.

[00:11:34] Nadine Ellis: No, , that was very on probably in my early twenties, so I'm 60 now.

[00:11:39] Tiffanie: Yeah.

[00:11:40] Nadine Ellis: That was quite a while ago. But yeah, it's just, stuff that happens. , And I think the nice thing about poetry is, , often, well, actually it doesn't matter the end of the day, the meaning behind it will always be mine.

[00:11:54] And I can't really relay that, , to people. When you're explaining, it's like the magician , showing all the [00:12:00] tricks. to say, but I think the reader who reads the poet or the poetry brings their own life experiences to the reading, and I think that's where the resonation sort of. Becomes the main point. You are bringing your own life history to what you are reading in front of you. And that's where the connection is. You sort of go, oh yeah, that, that reminds me of this that happened to me, or, know, so that's why some sometimes hit people and sometimes don't. It depends on your own lived experience.

[00:12:31] Tiffanie: No, that's totally true and that I'd never really thought of it that way, but you know, the person who's writing it knows why they're writing it, and the person who's reading it kind of interpret. It's maybe why, or they also can identify with some of the feelings that are in it, and that's what makes them so powerful.

[00:12:51] Nadine Ellis: Yeah, I agree. can I slip one more in.

[00:12:55] Tiffanie: Sure.

[00:12:56] Nadine Ellis: This one's called, um, ick comments. This is about, when I was in high school. Well, it started sort of in high school being bullied and through to, to later life. Back when I wanted concrete corridors of green youth, I was stabbed in the butt with a protractor Who does that? I ask myself, even now, mean girls grow to be mean Women. I still tell myself about that episode so long ago. It was a lifetime pass back then, [00:13:30] my teacher to my face acid etched, you'll never amount to anything at 14, dripping her awkward words thinking, would Mrs. Sini say that? I asked myself, even now, my flesh still scarred with her pungent laser cuts and modern attitudes. All this sulfur s mud, before I even knew what neuros spicy was is, but now I do. And once he called me a silver tongue snake. But what did he mean? I considered it shame. Only later I understood he was projected. That was when I couldn't do what He demanded my belly already, the child replicating him and my autism. Looking back now I comprehend. first born carries my spice to clients and I understand mum one must weigh the depths weight to tasks that grind stem. merge degenerative Phoenix Exchange, malevolence soaring above

[00:14:43] Tiffanie: , It sounds like some somebody who was hurt by words. Words are very powerful. And people don't understand that. It could be just a name or a word that you're saying, but they do cut like razor blade. It's.

[00:14:57] Nadine Ellis: exactly. Yeah. And I think the key [00:15:00] often is recognizing, , that you don't have to enable that. That whatever's coming towards you, you actually have the power within you to just not let it affect you. Harder said than done granted, we all do have that. We carry that inside us. So some point, hopefully people can sort of realize we come to that realization and stop enabling those sort of people.

[00:15:26] Tiffanie: Right,

[00:15:27] Nadine Ellis: Hmm.

[00:15:28] Tiffanie: and just like you said, they're projecting, you know, usually it's what they think about themselves.

[00:15:35] Nadine Ellis: Yeah. Yeah. , when you're in the depth of that sort of, , physical, psychological, emotional abuse, it's, it's so hard to realize what's going on around you. And it's like that lobster sitting , in , the water. You know, when you first put it in nice, warm water, it's happy as Larry, but once you start heating that water up, it doesn't really. 

[00:15:55] Tiffanie: register 

[00:15:55] Nadine Ellis: that that heat's increasing until it's too late and then you can't get out. So it is kind of like that you are in these sort of awful relationships and so entrenched, you don't know what's going on, get everyone around. You can see it, , and it's one of those things that you don't really get that sort of understanding until later in life. Some people. hopefully get it earlier, but like I said earlier on, you have to go through those little moments to be able to appreciate the nice things. But I think it's being able to sit back and think, well, [00:16:30] okay, that happened. I'm not gonna let that happen again. That's where you get those strengths.

[00:16:36] Tiffanie: to sit in that, you know, like, okay, it happened. You process it, you learn. And you move forward, and I think a lot of people have a problem with the moving forward part. They just sit and ponder on what could have should have happened.

[00:16:54] Nadine Ellis: Yeah.

[00:16:54] Tiffanie: You can't do that,

[00:16:55] Nadine Ellis: No, you

[00:16:56] Tiffanie: you just.

[00:16:57] Nadine Ellis: , But it is difficult for some people. It really is, and I, and I can appreciate that it's so overwhelming you don't even know where to start. So I think reaching out for help or asking someone for help is always a good start. But then before you even get to that step, you've gotta realize yourself, what's going on.

[00:17:15] And that can be the most difficult for anybody.

[00:17:18] Tiffanie: Oh, for sure. So your book, is it more like life experiences? Is it poetry? Is it a little bit of both?

[00:17:27] Nadine Ellis: It's all poetry. So there's 111 poems. , It's 136 page book. So yeah, it's all poetry. , It's all about, , the things range from,, like I said, motherhood, , traumatic sort of experiences, post traumatic stress. , There's about, , autism there. There's a bit about. What have we got? Just trauma and everyday life basically.

[00:17:51] Like the impacts, , it's things about death and those sort of impacts upon people. , It's all there, but basically it's [00:18:00] quite autobi, bial and biographical. It's a totally stuff. I, like I write about what's happening to me or. What's happened to the people around me, that obviously impacts upon me as well.

[00:18:11] , And I think there's something in there that everyone can relate to. not all just do gloom, but , it can be a little bit dark and I think that's where your own life experiences sort of paints it a little bit. , My mother says when she reads the book, she has to hold her psychological, her psychologist hand.

[00:18:28] , She feels like she gets a little bit triggered. So that can happen. But I think , it's a documentation of my experiences basically over, over that sort of time range. It carries a strong message that, resilience is there and if you're determined enough, you can live through anything. And pain and trauma do impact upon me, but it doesn't have to live inside you. You can learn from it , and move on. And like I said before, bad experiences are just as simple as good ones. And I think we need that sort of light and shade to be able to see the path in front of us.

[00:19:04] Tiffanie: Absolutely as soon as you get done with like a problem. Do you think you're never gonna run across another one? So it's right. These are things that we can constantly improve on and work on within ourselves and try to help our communities as well to try to heal as a whole. What would you tell somebody who is like dealing with some darkness [00:19:30] or not really know, like how to let it out?

[00:19:34] Nadine Ellis: Yeah. Well, it's one of those things I'm a very strong, , advocate for getting professional help. I think that's really important. . But the thing is, gotta recognize it within yourself. That is the bottom line. And if you do recognize that, that you're not feeling like you wanna feel, or you've got dark thoughts or things to that extent, reach out.

[00:19:58] I think it can be anything from your GP or talking to a, a close friend or reaching out. I think there's a lot of, , community lifeline. , I'm not sure what we've got there in the States, but there are of places where you can start. other thing is,, if you're not prepared to do that, then sometimes just being able to write things down that are going on in your head can help you just jot down notes, get information out.

[00:20:25] 'cause a lot of the time if we're carrying it, , our head, we are not leaving space for anything else to getting there. So I think. If you are struggling, write, write things down. It doesn't have to be for publication or whatever it is just for your own sanity. And I think getting things out of your head will help to help you process.

[00:20:48] , And then that's the start. , I'm not sure if that's actually covered your question, but that's what I would do if someone was coming up to me and saying, I'm having these awful thoughts, [00:21:00] I'm so depressed, or. It's usually, , haven't spoken to anyone professionally that you might need. Sometimes it's just, you just might need some chemical balance and , you might need some anti person for a little while or things like that. I'm not a professional though, , but , I think that's more the mother and me. Let's take you off to the doctor and have a chat sort of thing, but yeah.

[00:21:21] Tiffanie: No, it's good though because you gotta talk it out, whether it's on paper or with a professional. Because if not, it's gonna sit there, it's gonna fester, it's gonna turn into health issues and it, it's coming out one way or another. Do you want it out on paper or do you want it out with a diagnosis?

[00:21:41] Nadine Ellis: And sometimes, it can just be a chemical imbalance,

[00:21:44] Tiffanie: Mm-hmm.

[00:21:46] Nadine Ellis: Everybody has something that's a little bit sort of out of whack or whatever. And , if it is that you need some managed anti depressants, then Embrace that it's, shouldn't have that stigma that it does or did. When I was a child. , There's nothing wrong with sort of, um, needing that. It's like if you're diabetic and you need insulin, doesn't make you a less a person. It just means that you've got an ability to get that chemical balance happening and live a more normal, stable life. So that's what it takes for that mental health, then great.

[00:22:19] But if it's just you wanna process things that are happening. you then Yeah, write them down. Just give it out of your head. 'cause I think [00:22:30] OO, often if we keep things inside, we do make them worse too, by just sitting there and brewing on it and letting it manifest. And that's not good for anyone. Yeah.

[00:22:41] Tiffanie: Right. Yeah. I got an autoimmune for that. So.

[00:22:46] Nadine Ellis: Yeah. Amazing. We'll, we can destroy ourselves or we can use it to make ourselves better, , it's having that ability to reflect and sort of work out where you've come from and why you're feeling the way you are.

[00:23:01] And sometimes it's hard for people to sit there and actually look back and went at, well, hey, this was it. This was the starting point. Or all of these things accumulated and created that. just kept it aside and that's.

[00:23:15] Tiffanie: It's validation too, , look at what I've been through. Look how far I've come. So we need to start looking at it in the positive ways and exactly remove the stigma. I think we've definitely, as a society has gotten better on that, but we still have a lot of work to do.

[00:23:31] Nadine Ellis: That's right. And I think the thing is that those sort of things shouldn't define who you are. , Pain, trauma, whatever has been occurring to you. Everybody has it to some extent, but that shouldn't define you. What, what defines you as, how do you live through it? How do you choose to grow from that particular episode or episode? You don't have to be this amazing person at the end of it, it's just being able to be comfortable with yourself and feel [00:24:00] okay with your choices moving forward. , That's the win. , It's the tiny little things. And if at the end of the day you sleep, you sleep well, you feel, . You have some moments of joy, you communicate with people around you if you've got that support.

[00:24:15] And these are all magic moments. And I think it's being present in that and realizing that there are beautiful people out there that will help you. And the ones that are good loves too sure, , move through that and , find the people that you wanna be surrounded by.

[00:24:31] Tiffanie: Yes. That's great advice. Don't force yourself to stick in anybody's box. You don't need to make anybody else make you feel appreciated. Appreciate yourself, take care of yourself.

[00:24:45] Nadine Ellis: Yeah. , It's nice having people to help you take care of yourself, but you've gotta be the one to do it yourself. If you can do it, then you know, you kind of, you can invite other people in as well. Mm.

[00:24:58] Tiffanie: Right. Did I make that space? If somebody wanted to get your book of poems, where could they find it?

[00:25:05] Nadine Ellis: Yeah,, it is available globally on Amazon and in America. It's also available at Barnes and Noble, you can go directly to my publisher, which is full of consent publishing. So this, there's a few sort of avenues to, to obtain it. and yeah, and if people want to connect with me, they can do that via my author site, which is www.nadineellis.com.

[00:25:29] So [00:25:30] N-A-D-I-N-E-E do LIS. So that's one word.com. Or they can also see, , more newer work on my Instagram. So that's at Nadine Ellis Poetry or one word.

[00:25:42] Tiffanie: Perfect. I'll make sure I put the links in the show notes.

[00:25:46] Nadine Ellis: That would be very, very kind of you. Thanks. Yeah.

[00:25:49] Tiffanie: Of course. Was there anything else that you wanted to add?

[00:25:53] Nadine Ellis: , I would you like another poem just to finish with

[00:25:57] Tiffanie: Sure.

[00:25:58] Nadine Ellis: Yeah. , This one's a nice one. It's not so dark. This is called with lavish and Tree for honey and its viscosity. I'd to the valley clock and scanned the downstairs to the Delectable Honey shop for buckets of tenacious fluid ambi hued aquariums filled with the exotic acacia leather wood. the little plastic handle release thero twirl of sugar. Heaven the thick mix of bee and flour in my mouth, like a vernac swell of merlo to a gentleman. Honey Vineyard on at eight and then pedal the half hour back, tripping across Miller's yard to where lilt and wax swed to two trolleys of hives parked along the boundary.

[00:26:49] Fence. Three boxes per laptop with caster wheels and maneuverability or ease of distance. I watch the confetti of bees [00:27:00] whisp into their compound and feel their buzz wrap my skin. To my mother's voice out buzz. The bees calling me home 27 years past and I smear cold press sweetness across my toes, honey, that my father extracted from grandfather's hives. Hives I've never seen. when the honey rubs against my tongue, I feel the paint flake. Give way to my fingers as I brush along the box and see the bees panic as we puff the smoke. Into their hexagonal lives, their wealth from them. In the haze of manufactured fire, they fly blind to the truth, wanting to save their vital fluids and then collectively give over what they made, but was always never theirs. And tomorrow I hold my thumbnail to the horizon, and it's with this heart future pink. A paint spill, bleeding out to burnished orange as the morning rises to new flowers, and I will sock the column from their flower paints and share the honey's essence the bees.

[00:28:13] Tiffanie: Very nice.

[00:28:15] Nadine Ellis: I like my honey.

[00:28:17] Tiffanie: Yeah, just like a bee wood.

[00:28:19] Well, very, very nice. I wanna thank you so much for being here. This was nice.

[00:28:25] Nadine Ellis: thank you. No, my pleasure.

[00:28:28] Speaker 3: If this story moved, [00:28:30] you share with someone who needs to hear it. Don't forget to follow, rate and review. It helps more survivors find our community. Do you wanna be part of the conversation and share your story? Visit true crime connections.com. Until next time, be safe, be seen, and never forget. Your story has power.