[00:00:00] Tiffanie: Imagine getting a call that your daughter's father is loose and on a murderous spree after killing his mother and then attempting to kill his brother. Today's guest lived through that. What if the darkest chapters of your life could become someone else's survival guide?

[00:00:23] I'm Tiffanie, survivor and storyteller host of True Crime Connections, where we turn pain into power and stories. Into Sparks of Hope. Every week I sit down with someone who's lived through the unimaginable and found the strength to speak out. This week I am joined with Terry Garza, who is an advocate for homicide survivors.

[00:00:46] Hi, Terry. Welcome.

[00:00:48] Terry: you for having me.

[00:00:53] Tiffanie: It's a pleasure. Having you on this topic is very important.

[00:00:56] Terry: very important. , You know, we live in a violent country and on top of that, , we export violence to other countries, , all in the name of whatever the cause may be. And, , as a homicide survivor. My homicide happened in 1982 and , it was my daughter's father, my ex-boyfriend, my teenage ex-boyfriend. And, , he went on a crime spree. He went on a, I don't wanna say a killing spree, 'cause I wouldn't call it that, but, you know, at the time of , that this tragedy happened, it happened in southwest Detroit in 1982 [00:01:30] and a call went out for domestic disturbance. And I really believe that the police, although it's changed now.

[00:01:36] Back then, the attitude was like, oh, just probably some drunk guy slapping around his girl. 'cause she's mad 'cause he came home after the bar is closed, that kind of thing. And it wasn't that at all when they got there, they got to the scene of a, of a homicide of, you know, his mother, , fighting for , her life and her son, her oldest son laying next to him and the police apprehended him and they placed him in the back of the squad car.

[00:02:02] There wasn't a cage in the car., The key was left in the ignition with the engine engaged and he stole the car. He jumped over the front seat, stole the car, and he went on a high speed chase between two counties and Oakland County, the sister county to Wayne County here. , He hit a man and killed him on his motorcycle, on his way home from work. Yeah, was it. , It was very difficult. I was a 20-year-old single mom, know, making a life on my own for me and my baby girl. It was hard.

[00:02:39] Tiffanie: I can only imagine. First of all, you know what happened. Second of all, where is he? He is out driving around. You don't know if he's coming to your house. You don't know what he's thinking.

[00:02:50] Terry: No you don't. , And it was interesting because that all that all overnight while I was sleeping [00:03:00] and I got up the next morning, it was Friday morning, it was a free day. I'm roaming around with my baby girl and we're going grocery shopping and running earrings and you know, doing laundry and lifeing lifeing every day. And I make it back home and I am. Making supper for my baby girl. I'll never forget it. She liked oatmeal and jelly toast. You know, we were scraping by and she loved it. And so I fed it to her and I remember every nuance of that notification, you know? And when I had to go back to my healing, I really broke it down. And the hardest part. Excuse me. This always gets to me is when I speak to my daughter. It was, was there with me in that moment. You know, I get the call and I answer the phone and it's my mom and she's telling me the story and. I felt myself. The adrenaline dump was unbelievable. I felt sick to my stomach. I fell to my knees. I lost my breath. I was pounding on the floor looking, like, I felt like I was drowning, right? , And then when my breath found me, I had this catter walling come out of me and, . when it did, I couldn't even believe I [00:04:30] made this sound. I didn't know human beings could make those kind of sounds. And my baby girl met me in that moment. You know how she's 18 months old? , When they, their whole body locks up, you know, when you have children and they, and they're traumatized by something that frightens them so much in that moment and that sound that came out of me, she met me there.

[00:04:49] I think about that moment a lot, and I do believe in some way, just as I, with all the adrenaline that was dumped into my body and absorbed into my cells with all that trauma flooding me, I believe that's what happens to her, happened to her too, because she received her notification as well. Yeah, I remember getting up and brushing to her and holding her and swaying her, and there was something about that sway, know, and it was so. I can't even describe it. This tornado of emotion that I was feeling and going on around me, there was a sense of comfort in that moment. And once I got her calmed down, 'cause she re respond to my energy, so I had to calm myself down and I'm stuffing down these feelings and I'm calming down and I can feel her calming down and I could hear my mom calling my name out. the phone that was on the floor. And then just like, I don't know, like something robotic took over from me. I placed her back down. She was okay. She was in a good spot. I went and I picked up the phone and I said, no, you're wrong, mom. I gotta go Just like that [00:06:00] click. I was just really like calm. it was the strangest thing.

[00:06:09] Tiffanie: you Disassociated.

[00:06:10] Terry: Thought of it like that, but yes I did. I was in a deep state of denial. 'cause you are, denial is always the first step and yeah, you have to separate to survive. You do.

[00:06:24] Tiffanie: Yeah, I, you live there and it's just gonna cause nothing but turmoil.

[00:06:28] Terry: And I remember when I, when I made that disassociation. Thank you for that. That's actually, , I made that disassociation, I brought out my phone book and I called over to his mother's house and she had a companion, you know, a male friend that she was with for several years. And he answered the phone and I said, Hey. , His response was like, you know, he had kind of this southern kind of draw, a little very gentle in his tone, like, well, she's not here right now. Just like that. And then he handed the phone over to her oldest daughter, and her and I started talking and I started getting the details. It was just a weird space. It was weird all the way around, just in that moment, you know? And then I too had to make a death notification call too. His [00:07:30] father and stepmother who had just moved to California a few months before and they didn't know how to get ahold of them. And when her and I connected and I'm telling her this story, I heard. It was such a domino effect. I mean, all these people, it's like, ding. All these emotions that was bouncing inside of me and then I'm getting somebody else's emotion. And somebody else's emotion. It was crazy. It was a crazy night. Yeah.

[00:08:04] Tiffanie: I can only imagine it's frightening. And then you're like, well, what is next? What could possibly be next? You know that you are definitely gonna be a single mom for a very, very long time. Everything kind of probably hit you right at once.

[00:08:23] Terry: the rub was, I knew I was gonna be a single mom. That was the choice that I made when I found out I was pregnant. And there's a story behind that, as well, if I were to give all the backstory, it's, it's crazy. It's nuts. But yes, when I found out, I knew I was always gonna be a single mom.

[00:08:41] You know, I pivoted. I kept pivoting my life and I was talking earlier before we started recording that music has been a big part of my healing. And the song Gypsy by Fleetwood Mac okay. And I've heard the song a million times and it came out in August of [00:09:00] 1982. I was urged to go listen to it and I did

[00:09:03] so this was just right around the time that all this craziness was going on in my life. And I've heard the song a million times, but I never really listened to it. And that song has taken me to another level of my healing to see who I was as a teenager with all my hopes and dreams. Because this was my teenage boyfriend who committed these crimes. You know, this was the boy that I truly loved and , and we had different paths that we were going. What he wanted was not for me And when I look at the courage that it took for me to go ahead and end something that wasn't gonna work for me and look towards my future, and then I had to pivot because now I was having a baby, I pivoted and it was me and my baby. It still wasn't him because the things that we wanted were different. And then I did this pivot and. I'm proud of this. Pivot. I had a new dream. I had new goals and then that was taken from me too and I didn't, when you talk about how you could sit there, didn't know what to do. It's like, how do I make another dream? Happen for me as I've learned by listening to that song, and of course that combined with all the work that I've been doing on myself doing the shadow work, the shadow work is really hard. We like to say, I like to say people think they know who they are, but they don't. . I have now evolved and I can look back and there's a part of me, all of that is still in me. It's just [00:10:30] now I'm pivoting to a new dream , , I'm really pleased with who I am and how I've learned, and how I've grown, and how I've healed and learned to develop my voice. Yeah.

[00:10:44] Tiffanie: , So many times our trauma turns into something that is just so much bigger than us, and it makes us who we were meant to be in a sense, I guess you could say.

[00:10:57] Terry: a hundred percent, but there are caveats involved. For example, okay, in 2003, the matriarch of this family, okay? And this was my family, I loved these people and they loved me, and this was something that just blew our worlds apart. So the matriarch of our family passed away in 2003, and we gathered my daughter and I, I brought her. It was the first time some of her cousins were meeting her on that side of the family. , , Because I isolated, the first thing I did was , I say I had to isolate. , So I go to the funeral and I see his brother, his younger brother, and we're talking, and it was a good time, don't get me wrong, it was a good time.

[00:11:37] This was the seventies and there was a lot of drugs. It was like a communal kinda lifestyle. We were a patchwork family. Okay. so when I saw him, you know, we started reminiscing about the good times and there were, and I said to him, I go, you know, I wouldn't change a thing. And then I looked at him and I could see this, and I said, [00:12:00] except for that, know, now of course.

[00:12:03] If I could change that, I would, you know, I, I didn't have any control over it, but I took something. And I made it work for me. Whereas other people, he could never make that work for him. You know what I mean? It's like, , going, , like a parent who lost a child to violence, their experience, I, I could never say find, find purpose in your, in your, in your You know, because that's different. I, I could never imagine trying to find purpose. Where's the purpose of burying your child? You know? So, so yeah, there are certain caveats to that.

[00:12:39] Tiffanie: Oh, for sure, for sure. But a lot of times people will find purpose in pain, and usually it's by helping other people who are going through similar situations to let them know that they're not alone and that there's ways to cope with this. I.

[00:12:55] Terry: there are, and see this is, , here's the rub. We have to think about our healing journey, when we're healing our trauma, whatever it might be. But I'm gonna speak specific to my trauma, we have to look at it as a recovery like any other. Okay, if I'm an alcoholic, I'm going to rehab. If I'm a drug addict, I'm going to rehab, I'm gonna work my program, I'm gonna work my steps. Now that being said, you know. We need the same kind of network. We need to look at our healing as a recovery program.

[00:13:27] And it's not gonna stick the first time. [00:13:30] It might not stick the 10th time. It might not stick the 200th time. It's taken me 43 years to get where I'm at right now. And if it wasn't for the job that I had, which gave me access to the Cadillac of Health Insurance plan, I was a state employee. You know, I probably wouldn't be here right now. We need access to mental health care. We need to start this healing journey for people like us in our community, we are a silent community and it's now, TikTok has given me the opportunity and many other, like me to speak to this.

[00:14:10] Tiffanie: Yes, because so many times the families, the people who are left over from homicides, either they're in the spotlight and they don't wanna be, or you know, they're blamed for what happened, and it's not their fault. You know, so many different things. It's very isolating to be in that spot.

[00:14:32] Terry: isolating. , And wasn't because I liked my isolation, I, I was always a kid who liked my solitude. I was the youngest of four and we lived in a neighborhood with a lot of free range chicken. I wanted time.

[00:14:49] Tiffanie: Oh, you cut out again.

[00:14:50] Terry: pick up?

[00:14:53] Tiffanie: Did you say? Did you say free range chickens.

[00:14:56] Terry: Free range Chicken Kids.[00:15:00] 

[00:15:03] Tiffanie: Okay.

[00:15:03] Terry: there was always something to do with someone, right? And so, when I wanted to be by myself, I would go in my backyard. So I was used to being by myself. I like that solitude. But for others, it can be a lot of time in your head, and it is a lot of time in my head for me. But I wanted to speak specifically to post-traumatic stress disorder. post-traumatic growth. Now, I never knew anything about post-traumatic growth until I connected with our current, our common friend here, Dr. Jan Canty, and her and I connected a few years ago, and I was telling her, I said, you know, I just, there are pieces of myself that I miss and she helped me redirect, , my healing journey without me even knowing it.

[00:15:49] Right? And so she asked me, she's like, well. Have you ever heard of Post-Traumatic Growth? And I said No. And so she gives me this introduction to it and I'm going down a rabbit hole. 'cause we're speaking to finding purpose. Right. And so with PTSD, or as they like to refer to it as PTS, they don't like the disorder part of it, specifically the veterans. But with PTSD, , when you're triggered. , Traditional therapy teaches you they either help with medication, , they teach you things to manage your trigger 'cause your stress levels are rising. You're really in your sympathetic nervous system and you're in your head. So they have various MDRs tapping, you know, breathing exercises.

[00:16:29] And [00:16:30] these are all really effective at helping you manage the trigger and staying in your moment of survival. With Post-traumatic growth, 1995 there was a study that came out of the University of North Carolina, Charlotte, by these doctors, doctors, , Eski, El, and Calhoun. And it spoke to post-traumatic growth and one of the pillars in tr growth. There are five of them, but one of them is finding purpose. And yes, if you are someone. And, and I do believe that the majority of our community does seek to understand and find purpose. You'll never get an answer to the why, but finding purpose is the first step into to, for me, is healing. And I always knew there had to be a reason why, as cliche as that is why I was chosen. And spiritually that took me back to, I chose this, you know what I'm saying?

[00:17:27] Before coming here. It really, took me down a whole different. Timeline of my healing. It really did.

[00:17:39] Tiffanie: I believe in that too, that we pick whatever traumas, whatever lifestyle that we want before we come here, experience it. We go back and then we start a new, sometimes we wonder why would we choose such horrible outcomes? But it's like they, they explain it as because we're [00:18:00] curious and we wanna see what it's like.

[00:18:02] Terry: Well see, I think, I, I think I was chosen and I even when my daughter was coming up, you know, , the hardest thing it was, was telling her, okay, about this, but you know, about her father and when he was reintroduced to her life. always spoke to my daughter in a truth, one of the truths that I used to speak to her is like, this can't be for nothing. There has to be something there that we are learning from me and you. were chosen for this. You chose me to be your mom, and I chose you to be my daughter. And that was always the backstory. It's like we're going through this together. And then in the 3D realm, I guess you could call it, and I never intuitively, I was speaking these things to her. . Now that she could understand and it was just something that I learned to navigate. but yeah, I do believe , she's actually struggling with her journey right now, you know? But yeah, I do believe that we were chosen and, , there is a purpose to this. The same page with me. She's just fighting it right now.

[00:19:20] Tiffanie: well, she'll have to find her way, like it took you time to find your way. We all have to do that at some point.

[00:19:28] Terry: The, the strange thing about it [00:19:30] is that her and I have always been connected, , in such a way that it's scary. Okay. she called me back in February of this year, back in February. And she sent me, well first of all, she sent me a picture, , a Google shot of this area in southwest Detroit, and it was Campbell and Veer Highway. Right. And she with the question, what's here? And that's in southwest Detroit and there's a lot of businesses there. So I called her up, I go, what are you looking for? And she's like, well, I had a dream last night. And something about Campbell and I 75 came up and I felt my heart sink. And now this is stuff she doesn't know. I said, Natasha, I said, that's where your grandma was killed. And she was like, what? And so there was this energy exchange between the two of us, and I could feel it, even though she was hundreds of miles away from me. And she's like, well, then there was another part of this dream about three doors down, and I was like, blood ran cold.

[00:20:36] I said, Natasha, she was murdered three doors down in front of the neighbor's. And it was crazy. And so I told her, I said, this is your sign. I think you need to explore what this means. And she has pushed back on it and she's struggling right now. So yeah, she's going to figure it out. She has to[00:21:00] 

[00:21:01] Tiffanie: That's insane.

[00:21:02] Terry: tell me about it. Yeah.

[00:21:08] Tiffanie: Oh my gosh. I wonder if it's his mother trying to communicate with her.

[00:21:13] Terry: her that's exactly what it was because his mother, this is crazy. Okay. His mother came to me in a dream after the homicide was done. , She started appearing to me about a year after. Everything happened. He was writing me letters from prison and he was begging me to come see him. He was telling me how much he loved me and that he needed me, and I was, I was, I hated him.

[00:21:41] I hate edit, hated everything about him. I was full of anger. I was full of hatred. I was full of. didn't want to go see him. And I would tell him, I would write him back, please stop writing me. Please stop. I have enough on my plate. And then he wrote me again with the music. He writes me a letter and in it he's got three songs, love songs, and they're beautiful songs, okay, that he wrote verbatim word for word, , to me. one of 'em was The 12th of Never by Johnny Mathis. Open Arms by Journey. And Willie Nelson's always on my mind. He liked that version better than Elvis's. I was reading through these things and I just remember just sobbing and sobbing, like, please, I need [00:22:30] a break. And, , hold on. And I remember riding him and I said, I hate you so much. It makes me wanna kill myself. Please leave me alone. And so he finally stopped and then sometime after that. mother started coming to me in a dream and I was like, oh my God. And vividly I remember his dream. I'm walking up the porch, you know, the side of a porch, and I'm going into of their house, and I'm going into this door to the left, and normally in the house.

[00:23:03] It was a kitchen. The kitchen was there, but this time it was the living room and his younger brother is sitting on the couch and off in the far right corner was the tv, you know, at two o'clock in the morning. The blue light, the screening, blah, blah, blah. Right? And so those, he was on the couch and the light was coming out of the, the corner in the right and off.

[00:23:22] In the far, far left was this beaming bright light coming outta the kitchen. And I remember I looked at his brother and I said, where is she? And he's like, she's in the kitchen. so I walked into the kitchen and there was this. Bright, bright light, just beaming. Like if it were in heaven, that's how bright the light would be. Right? And she was shrouded in this kind of like, garb like, , art, the Guadalupe of the Virgin Mary, okay? She was shrouded like that and it was all in white, and she had the most piercing blue eyes. And she looked at me and she said, [00:24:00] go to him. every time I had that dream, I would wake up. At that part and I was like, I can't go to him.

[00:24:07] I hate him. And she literally haunted me to go to him. And I eventually, I went, I.

[00:24:19] Tiffanie: Wow. That's crazy. I guess that's, in a way, she forgave him.

[00:24:28] Terry: I,

[00:24:28] Tiffanie: That's the way I take it.

[00:24:29] Terry: I do believe that, that in some ways she has forgiven him. And, you know, it was so

[00:24:34] Tiffanie: I.

[00:24:35] Terry: because I felt responsible for his feelings. Okay. I felt, of course, I felt responsible for my daughters. , I felt like there was a connection, the three of us. You know, and her telling me to go to him now with all the combination of his crimes, he did seven and a half years.

[00:24:56] Okay. , He served his sentences consecutively and not concurrently. , He was charged with involuntary manslaughter, I think was the highest charge. , And then attempted murder and the fleeing and abetting. , He did seven and a half years, and so when he came out. . He violated after five months and went back.

[00:25:16] So the second time he was paroled, he was coming into life. He started, , he started a tool and die program while he was in prison. The second time he got a job when he was paroled, , working at Chrysler. He lied on his ba on his app, you know, on his [00:25:30] application that he was never convicted of a felony and they didn't do background checks back then. And so he got a good job working for Chrysler and he, he was really proud of himself and he was, know, . Paying child support and he was able to provide, you know, health insurance for his daughter. And he was really proud of those things, and I was proud of him too. And it was this odd dichotomy of like how much I hated him because I still, I had to suppress all these feelings that I never got to process. For the sake of, and when I expressed that and shared that with my daughter, when I started this healing journey, in some ways she was trying to shame me. I say, Hey, listen, you had your whole life was nothing about, but was all about you and your feelings with this situation. I'm just now tapping into this. And when I started sharing my POV and the experience of suppression, she was like, wow, mom. I never thought of how. Easy. You made it look when you were around dad and I said, yeah,

[00:26:39] Tiffanie: That means you're a good ass mama.

[00:26:44] Terry: But the thing that gets me the most, and this is why we need resources, and when, , I was having a conversation with. Jan. I asked her a few years ago, I said, if we were able to get access to resources, what [00:27:00] would that look like? And her first response was, well, it would have to be. Funded by the government because not everybody has health insurance.

[00:27:10] Okay. And I can attest to it there, there were no resources in the eighties. And on the federal level, if your crime is at a federal level, my understanding is that you can get 35 sessions of mental health treatment on a federal level. And I think on a state and county level, it varies from state and county across the country. Okay. But she said first and foremost it would have to be government funded. then she said it would have to be something. And I'm thinking, okay, check. And then it would have to be something that would have a variety of, , techniques. Okay. Treatments. First of all, always with a trauma, trauma-informed therapist.

[00:27:50] 'cause we need specific trauma-informed therapists. , And that could be one-on-one talk therapy or group sessions, both for adults and for children. think, , treating families is imperative, you know, so like family sessions that could be available, , to families. I do believe not enough focus is on the parents, as it is on the children, so I think. You know, once the parent learns how to heal, of course, I, I've learned this, hindsight being 2020, if I had only taken the time to really tap into what was going on with me, I could have healed myself [00:28:30] and then been more prepared for my daughter. , But I, you know, I, there was no, was no playbook. You know, there isn't any playbook, so you kind of figure it out as you go along. And so her and I are. On that same page, now we do. , Now Jan is out in the Pacific Northwest and she has pulled together the first ever, it's called the Aftermath Conference, and it's the first ever national conference for homicide survivors. And it's gonna be taking place, hold on, I gotta put my glasses on.

[00:29:03] Tiffanie: September 11th to the 13th, 2026.

[00:29:07] Terry: Washington. Registration opens on September 11th. Next month $250. The limit is 75 guests for this first session. If you want more information, you can reach out to Jan Canty at after math dot of dot. homicide@gmail.com. Now she's looking for sponsors to help with this event. , I do think she said that the registration breakfast, but not dinner. I'm not sure, so don't hold me to that. , But it's the first ever conference where survivors, homicide survivors, or as we're identified as in the legal system, co victims can get together and actually, first of all, have our own community. , Where we can network and bounce ideals off of each other [00:30:00] and see what's going on legislatively in our counties, in our states, that can help each other. We don't have that kind of network, know, we don't have that kind of outreach and I don't want to place blame, but I mean, we never thought of it before either, you know?

[00:30:17] And we are. Here we are for the first time ever. Let's go. Let's get it done.

[00:30:25] Tiffanie: I think it's great because like you said, you're gonna get people from all different states and if everyone can kind of like put in whatever knowledge you have into what your state offers, tips, tricks that might help people, like, oh my gosh, the possibilities are endless.

[00:30:43] Terry: You know, my vision is okay. I mentioned, I alluded earlier to 12 step programs. We couldn't break our recovery down 12 steps. For that, but have been a few people Okay. , That I've met on TikTok, one in one person specifically, , journey for Justice for her son, Blake Payne. and you know, one of the things that I have learned through my, my own recovery is that my own healing is that. You have to sit through the feelings. Okay? And that is the hardest part. We heal in isolation. For the most part, I've done it. It's grueling. It is hard. And so I think with this network, by creating a space where, [00:31:30] as I have with Journey, I say to her, listen, if you're ever triggered, you know, me. I don't care what time of day or night it is, I will pick up the phone and I will sit with you for your trigger for as long as it takes. And she's like, you do that for me? I said, yes. And every time she has called me, I have been there for her. You know, now I'm frozen. Okay. There we go. I have been there for her and she has been grateful for me for that, and I feel good because I am help out too.

[00:32:02] Like you said, you are helping others. You know, you can't heal through something like this and feel good about it and know that there are others in the same pond you're swimming in and they can't keep their head above water. It doesn't make any sense.

[00:32:22] Tiffanie: 10%. Absolutely. That's what it's all about. Yeah, you've been through some shit, but now when somebody else goes through it, you kind of now have what it takes to walk them through it. You're pretty much being for them what you never had, and that is so powerful.

[00:32:43] Terry: powerful and I've worked really hard on healing my voice and healing myself so I could build my voice and one of the focuses that I'm. Focus, using My voice for now is for Palestine. on my TikTok, Detroit [00:33:00] girl Southwest. , I have taken to exposing politicians who take APAC money. It's really important that we, that our, our, , you know. Our candidates, our political candidates, and our Congress people who are representing us right now. , To see and watch what's going on in Gaza right now. It's devastating when I hear a school shooting going on. There was something about the Valdi happened when that happened in May of 2022. I was down in Athens, Georgia, in Georgia visiting my daughter and my grandkids down there, and I just.

[00:33:35] There was something about that shooting because we were heir witness. We could hear those gunfires taking place in that school, and those officers were standing down, what the fuck is wrong with you? The bravest person out of all of that was the mom who jumped the fence and they followed her in and she went in and she extracted her children. You know, there was something about that moment that I, that was just riveting to me, and I thought, and look at me. I can't even look at my own dark feeling. There was something about that moment that changed my life completely.

[00:34:16] Tiffanie: Sometimes that's what it takes. And I mean, she was so courageous for doing that. You know, at the end of the day, everybody wants to go home alive. Everybody wants to be able to see their family. So, [00:34:30] but I mean, if you're a police officer, that's kind of what you signed up for. While we're running away from a attacks, they're supposed to be the ones running towards it.

[00:34:40] Terry: You know, I speak of Valdi and I haven't spoken of it until recently, you're absolutely right. You know, everybody wants to come home. Like the gentleman on his motorcycle home from his work to his wife and his two children, he didn't make it there. deserved to make it home. You know, everybody deserves to go home alive, you know, and to be welcomed warmly and lovely, lovingly by their family. That being said, yes, I do agree with you. They know what they signed up for. There was this, there's this documentary, it came out in 2016. It's called 77 Minutes, and it's about the massacre in San Diego, A McDonald's in San Diego, okay?

[00:35:22] And it took officers 77 minutes to respond to this massacre. Okay, and then this report came out on Uvalde. Okay? It took officers 77 minutes. Here we are, the year is 2022 it's still, and surprisingly so it's in Texas and I'm calling out Texas on there. Don't mess with Texas. Bullshit. They showed video of officers saying to the shooter, please put down your firearms.

[00:35:56] Are you for real? With that? [00:36:00] Please put down your firearms. They should have bared those classrooms 77 minutes from 1984 to 2022 and they still have not learned anything. is going on with our law enforcement system if they can't control the guns and the pe? Crazy people with the guns at least sharpen your responses. infuriated me.

[00:36:25] Tiffanie: I get that. Yeah. I mean there are so many changes that need to be made. I mean, the list goes on and on and on. So it's Where do you start? I mean, the justice system's fucked. Fucking the, yeah. It is just all of it. All of it.

[00:36:43] Terry: start? So if we can't control it, then we start with ourselves. You know, and we develop our voices and, you know, I did a, I did my very first press conference. It was September 18th, 2023, right? And I lent my story to a domestic gun violence act that we got passed here in Michigan. All right? , If you're convicted of a felony, it, you, you don't have access to a legally owned handgun for eight years. Okay? So. It's not much, but it, it's a win, right? And so I remember standing up there, I had five minutes and I took the five minutes and it was very powerful. And I said, it is because of our silence. That meaning survivors, our survivors silence [00:37:30] that has brought this country to a tipping point because legislators don't wanna hear us. The people around us, the closest to us don't wanna hear us. It is time that we be seen and we be heard because we are your neighbors. We are sisters, your brothers, your aunts, your uncles, you know we are, we are all around you.

[00:37:52] And yet we walk through this world wounded and nobody even sees. Nobody cares.

[00:38:02] Tiffanie: Oh, hi. Absolutely. I'm actually getting ready to release an episode on this, that the only way things are gonna change is we fucking demand it. We demand it. We stand together, and we don't settle for this shit anymore. It's the only way. Only way. If not, this is just gonna keep going on forever and ever.

[00:38:23] It's time to talk our truth and be hurt.

[00:38:27] Terry: a hundred percent. , And this is just for us, I mean, when you think about other communities that don't have representation and have voices that aren't being heard, there are many communities out there that, . That aren't seen and heard. , The, another community that needs a voice are the disabled. The disabled are the biggest victims of the crime network because they can't speak for themselves. They don't have anybody advocating for them. I'm here to speak for my community. And when I speak for [00:39:00] my community, I speak for myself too. And, , I'm really excited now, you know, I've been into the song Gypsy. And it's making me excited about the future of my life Now, I no longer, know, when I think about my healing and my past and, you know, like I said, I've had a few, couple dark nights, you know, , these past few nights. But even though it's dark, it's good because now it takes me into a new direction.

[00:39:26] I'm not afraid of what I see in there anymore. When I started this journey in 2020, I remember going in and I went to psychology today.com to find a, a, a psych, a doctor I could work with. And you get a 30 minute interview with this doctor. You can find doctors and I, I, I took my time and I shopped around and I zeroed in on one I said, listen, this is how it was going for me before, and I'm not, there's something on the other side. I wanna get to the other side. I don't wanna manage my triggers and live in survival anymore. There's a bigger world out there and I wanna feel it with the feeling that I had before it all happened, you know? And so it was really scary to go in and sit in those dark feelings. , But you have to do it. You have to do it. Would I do that again? Absolutely. A hundred percent, you know, , my friend that I was speaking to earlier, she's getting comfortable with it when she feels it. And you need to be comfortable with it because the more you fight it, the more it overwhelms you.

[00:40:29] [00:40:30] When you do feel it, don't fight it anymore. It is what it is, was what it was. It's, it's a part of your story. It's not a life sentence, you know.

[00:40:42] Tiffanie: I love that. Yes, you don't have to live there. Light is on the other side of that darkness, but it's up to you to do the work to find it.

[00:40:54] Terry: earlier this year, , when I was speaking to healing and I, I used the what if, what if you are the one lead your family of the darkness. if you're the one to break the generational trauma curses, what if there isn't anything in those feelings that can hurt you now more than when you, when it hurts you the very first time? You know? And. And when it hurts you the first time, it's, it's massive. It's huge. I like to use this analogy for moms, okay? And I'm sure I don't, I'm not a man. I don't know how, I'm sure men have the same feeling when they hold their first born child too. But when you're a mom and you spend nine months with this human being growing inside of you, and you're anxious to meet this baby, and then finally, you know you're already in love, but. There's something about holding that baby in your arm for the first times and you know this big, like I never knew the universe could give such wonderful love. It's so big. It's so massive. Right? Well, [00:42:00] imagine feelings for me, like anger, hatred, and rage. As big and as massive as that because that's what they felt like. And I spent so much time fighting those feelings, not realizing as I do know, again, hindsight being 2020, that those feelings aren't necessarily bad feelings. They're actually good feelings in that moment. They're protecting you. And so I refer to them as my junkyard dogs. And so now that I've accepted them and I love them and I know I can count on them and like here, here boys. You know, they will come up when I need them. You know, because they're not my enemy. They're my friends. They're there for me when I need them. Does that make sense?

[00:42:44] Tiffanie: It makes total sense. I love that analogy. I really do.

[00:42:48] Terry: we need to realize that the feelings that we had with that notification are the biggest that they will ever get and never again. And every time you go back and you revisit them, you take the power away.

[00:43:09] Tiffanie: Yes, yes. Don't, don't give it the power.

[00:43:13] Terry: Thanks,

[00:43:13] Tiffanie: You hold the power. You hold the key to your freedom in your life. Use it. And I just wanna make sure anybody who knows somebody who needs to hear this, please share it with them. The more we can spread [00:43:30] this, the better this world is gonna be. We gotta heal. We gotta heal the world.

[00:44:26] Oh, preach it. Preach it. Absolutely. It's kinda like same thing. I mean, if you can't love yourself, how can anyone else love you and how can you love anyone else? It's all connected. It's gotta start within, I.[00:45:00] 

[00:46:27] Right, right. [00:46:30] Once you find that you, you know other people, they're not going to get it. That's, that's your space. That's for you to find, and she'll find her own.[00:48:00] 

[00:48:42] It is, it definitely is. You need that time to think, go through your own emotions. I, I definitely think so. Like there's times you just, you need to sit where you're at and look at everything and the whole picture, and then you can come back and revisit. But that part is very, very important and you should be very proud of yourself.

[00:49:06] I want you to know that.[00:49:30] 

[00:49:58] Right. But yeah, that's something she's gonna have to decide on her own, and when she's willing and ready, it will appear.

[00:50:55] That's what it's all about. Like you're living your experience to the best. That's what we're all [00:51:00] supposed to be doing, supposed to be doing.[00:52:30] 

[00:53:20] Yes. Own that shit,

[00:53:53] right? I mean, just like every other human out there, you're gonna have good days, you're gonna have bad days. You gotta make the best of it. [00:54:00] Tomorrow's a new day and you just start over again. I'm gonna make sure that I put the link. In the show notes for the, um, well, I'm gonna put your TikTok in there.

[00:54:14] Jan's email? Mm-hmm.

[00:54:38] Okay. That's fine.

[00:54:46] Yeah. Baby steps. At least it's, it's created

[00:54:56] exactly.

[00:55:04] Oh my gosh. The technical issues were a mess. But I wanna, I wanna thank you so much for being here. It was a pleasure having you on, finally.[00:55:30] 

[00:55:37] Thank you. I appreciate that. We need more of it.

[00:55:47] Speaker: If this story moved, you share with someone who needs to hear it. Don't forget to follow, rate and review. It helps more survivors find our community. Do you wanna be part of the conversation and share your story? Visit true crime connections.com. Until next time, be safe, be seen, and never forget. Your story has power.